Posts by Odrade

Dan, thanks! There were several really good ideas in this thread, but this one resonates. Neither the classmate I'm talking to, nor her boyfriend have any respect or interest in the JWs, but my classmate wants to understand in what way the former wife's conversion ruined the relationship. I think those points are exactly what I'm looking for.

Obvious ones yes, but sometimes there are sooooo many obvious points, that weeding through all the wrongheaded JW ideas to make a clear picture is really hard.

Thanks again everyone, will let you know how it goes.

Odrade

26

Giving Away the Family Dog

by imallgrowedup in

jw
friends

i was wondering if anyone out there has ever needed to find a new home for a family pet, and if so, how they handled breaking the news to the kids.

we got this dog when he was 13 weeks old and he is now 16 months old.

in the short time we have had him, despite all the love and attention he receives, he has destroyed our home!

Odrade

First of all, (clear light of day and all...) Growedup, I AM sorry. I come on like a Mack truck sometimes. Not helpful. It was wrong of me to assume you were being irresponsible with the dog. In my defense, I have heard many of the same statements from people who ARE irresponsible, and it pushed all of my buttons. You do indeed have a difficult dog, some dogs are much tougher to train than others. Biting dogs for instance, clearly the time is not taken to retrain them if there are small children in the house, no matter whose fault it is the dog got that way. But I admit, it would have been far better to ask for more particulars than to just try and "correct" you. You are right, I don't know you. I responded poorly.

In rescue, they have learned to say "behavioural issues," rather than neurotic, or psychopath, or whatever negative attribute. Part of the idea behind this change is so people focus on the issue to be changed, rather than get stuck on name calling. Works with people too.

There are a few references one of the good dog rescues here uses and recommends:

One is Don't Shoot the Dog by Karen Pryor. She outlines in detail the "positive reinforcement" technique in training. It's particularly effective for submissive or fear aggressive dogs. She is very clear though, that retraining a "problem" dog is very time consuming.

The other is my favorite. The Culture Clash by Jean Donaldson. The book spends much of its pages on natural behavior in dogs, and how that translates when the dog comes into the home. It's geared a little more toward aggressive dogs, but the point is made that submissive dogs are just as likely to have latent aggressive tendencies. The same methods are used for both. There's a great chapter in there about chewing called "It's all Chew Toys to Them."

Most training experts I've talked to do not recommend doggy bootcamp. The only exception being adult retrievers who already have obedience training from the owner are sometimes sent to "hunting school" for an intensive on location, retrieval, silence, etc. As a sidenote, I've seen "bootcamp" trainers in action. It would break your heart. Most of them are extremely abusive to the poor dogs. Yes, you get them back and they will walk on a leash, sit/stay for an hour, not bark, etc, but they have no "spark" left. Many bootcamp dogs eventually end up in rescue because the issues they come home with are even larger than those the "training" was meant to correct.

The issues you are dealing with are difficult. If you do decide to keep the dog and look into training, see if you can get a couple of private sessions with a good "positive reinforcement" trainer. They will try and sell you a package, but the right one will be willing to have just a couple of sessions, and show you what to do. If you live in a city, get your recommendation from one of those doggy daycare centers.

Desensitization is the concept where you reward the dog for being brave. (Simple explanation.) Puppies will usually desensitize themselves as they explore. An excessively submissive puppy may have been too frightened to explore though, so the trainer has to do it with him, often right down on the floor on her hands and knees. Each exploration is usually laced with treats, so that each brave venture to something new is rewarded immediately. Same with walks. Everytime the dog has just a little better reaction to something "scary," he gets a treat.

There are lots of people who are against treat training. "Clicker" training works too, but for my money, nothing motivates a dog like a piece of jerky or cheese. My dog will do anything for a grape. I hope some of that helps.

Odrade

37

How many of you were the "perfect" guy/girl?

by talesin in

jw
friends

were you considered a 'good mate'?.

did you feel like a piece of meat?.

guys/girls' opinions welcome.

Odrade

Luna, it's "geek." How many times do I have to tell you? I AM NOT A NERD!!!

Odrade

26

Giving Away the Family Dog

by imallgrowedup in

jw
friends

i was wondering if anyone out there has ever needed to find a new home for a family pet, and if so, how they handled breaking the news to the kids.

we got this dog when he was 13 weeks old and he is now 16 months old.

in the short time we have had him, despite all the love and attention he receives, he has destroyed our home!

Odrade

seriously the reality of life is that sometimes things don't work out.

Well, Melissa, it IS a public forum. What you say here is very true. Sometimes things don't work out. My understanding (someone pm'ed me) is that growedup is raising a child with Aspergers. She also has a dog who needs special attention. My issue is not that the dog needs a new home, my issue is that growedup seems to be blaming the dog.

The dog is not to blame. If the training of this dog is either beyond your abilities, or takes more time than you are capable of giving, due to your other (very time-consuming) responsibilities... THESE are good reasons to give up the dog.

These are also things you can explain to your son. Tell him this dog has special needs. (He will understand that.) Tell him that just like he needs to go to a special teacher to help him with some things, your dog needs to go live with a special trainer because mommy doesn't know how to help him.

Odrade

26

Giving Away the Family Dog

by imallgrowedup in

jw
friends

i was wondering if anyone out there has ever needed to find a new home for a family pet, and if so, how they handled breaking the news to the kids.

we got this dog when he was 13 weeks old and he is now 16 months old.

in the short time we have had him, despite all the love and attention he receives, he has destroyed our home!

Odrade

In the meantime, if you would like to donate the money I need to pay for the desensitizing that may or may not work on this dog,

I really don't see how that means you have tried to train the dog. Send you money to PAY SOMEONE ELSE, to train your dog? And if there was a problem with the dog being hypersensitive, why have you waited 13 months to do something about it? It was clear to you the first day as you say, that the dog was overly submissive. THAT was the time to do something.

He was "born with" mental or emotional problems? Do you have a veterinary degree? or a training certification?

It's nice you want to help your son not be traumatized by giving away the dog, but it does not dismiss your responsibility.

I stand by my "rude rantings."

Odrade

26

Giving Away the Family Dog

by imallgrowedup in

jw
friends

i was wondering if anyone out there has ever needed to find a new home for a family pet, and if so, how they handled breaking the news to the kids.

we got this dog when he was 13 weeks old and he is now 16 months old.

in the short time we have had him, despite all the love and attention he receives, he has destroyed our home!

Odrade

A pet bought in haste is not an excuse. An excessively submissive dog can be desensitized. Excessive fear is a socialization issue and also a problem of discipline. You cannot use the "usual" methods on a fearful dog, but they can be trained.

You say you have had three dogs? How many have you trained from a puppy yourself? Some people do luck out with certain dogs who seem particularly people oriented. They have an easy time training the dog (or their parents seem to have an easy time training the dog.) Then they get a dog who doesn't practically train himself. This does not excuse their responsibility for dealing with the issues and training the dog that is in their care.

If a parent has four kids, and the first three are no trouble, very good kids, then the youngest comes along and is a handful... you see where I am going with this... is it okay for the parent to say "Well, the first three were really good, well-behaved kids. This one is already 9 years old, and so neurotic. It's clearly not my fault, the kid is a psychopath. I'm going to put him up for adoption." Of course not.

Cutting his teeth on your carpet and shoes, etc??? This is what dogs do. That is why people puppy proof their house. You don't leave your Lladro on the coffee table when your 11 month old is learning to walk. So why would you leave your possessions where the dog can get them, then blame the dog for cutting teeth on them. As far as the carpet... that's an easy answer. It's called a crate, or baby gates. Don't blame the dog.

Odrade

26

Giving Away the Family Dog

by imallgrowedup in

jw
friends

i was wondering if anyone out there has ever needed to find a new home for a family pet, and if so, how they handled breaking the news to the kids.

we got this dog when he was 13 weeks old and he is now 16 months old.

in the short time we have had him, despite all the love and attention he receives, he has destroyed our home!

Odrade

SFJ, if your child tears up the house, do you assume he is an "outdoor child?" Any dog can be trained to have manners in the house. There is nothing wrong with having a dog inside or outside (if adequate shelter is provided,) but this is a training issue, not an "outdoor dog." At this point, "outdoor dog" would be just another excuse.

Odrade

edit to add: and please no offense Jim, but as an avid aquarist, tropical fish are another hobby that, done properly, is expensive and can be time consuming. Even goldfish can live for years, grow to 10" in length, and in order not to stunt growth, must have many gallons of water per fish, and large water changes each week to maintain health.

26

Giving Away the Family Dog

by imallgrowedup in

jw
friends

i was wondering if anyone out there has ever needed to find a new home for a family pet, and if so, how they handled breaking the news to the kids.

we got this dog when he was 13 weeks old and he is now 16 months old.

in the short time we have had him, despite all the love and attention he receives, he has destroyed our home!

Odrade

I truly thought this dog would grow out of his psychopathy, but he hasn't.

The dog is not a psychopath, he is untrained. There is a huge difference. No amount of classes or "doggy bootcamp" will work if you do not continue the training at home, and wait for the dog to outgrow puppy behavior while continuing training.

The only thing that relieves my conscious somewhat is that the very well-respected rescue organization I found has already found a good home for him where I know he will get lots of love and attention.

This is also unfair. Rescue agencies, especially "well-respected" private organizations are flooded with good dogs that have simply not been trained. Most of the time, they take these animals because the distraught (but ultimately irresponsible) owner tells them "You have to take my dog, he is ruining the house. If you don't take him I'll have to put him to sleep." These good hearted people take the animal into their already crowded operation, spend their time, energy and love, (and lots of money usually,) to train the dog and see that he gets a good home. All things the original owner should have done in the first place.

Pets are not a whim.

Think of what this incident teaches your son. Does it teach him to be loving and responsible? Do you think it enhances the value he places on life (even if it is "just a dog?)

Odrade

26

Giving Away the Family Dog

by imallgrowedup in

jw
friends

i was wondering if anyone out there has ever needed to find a new home for a family pet, and if so, how they handled breaking the news to the kids.

we got this dog when he was 13 weeks old and he is now 16 months old.

in the short time we have had him, despite all the love and attention he receives, he has destroyed our home!

Odrade

Do what you have to do, then just tell your son. He is seven years old. He is old enough to know when something is not fair. He knows it is not fair for you to have this dog, improperly train him, then dump him when he becomes "neurotic."

This is my biggest pet peeve, no scratch that, serious issue. Take a trip through an animal shelter sometime. People get animals, then dump them when they are not cute anymore because they are too much trouble or are "bad". Give the dog to a good home, then do NOT get another.

Odrade

"There are no bad pets, only bad owners."