Posts by sunny23

32

Science and Philosephy.- God

by HowTheBibleWasCreated in

jw
friends

when i discovered ervs and #2 chromosome i knew there was no personal god.

the rest is history.

i have always since kept updated in science as much as possible.. .

sunny23

The formation of atoms, molecules, stars, planets, heavier elements, life.

I thought the current consensus was that all the matter in the universe we see and feel was made right at the Big Bang. Matter is not still being created, its just transforming just like they teach us in school: energy doesn’t get created or destroyed, it only transforms or conserves (conservation of energy).

What would that mean? That God is physical? No special powers? Can be destroyed?

Sure, light is technically physical and many used to believe light from the sun was a phenomenon (a god or super power/miracle of sorts). Humans can manipulate matter and convert neutrons to protons. Perhaps an entity like a God could manipulate matter and energy(obeying laws) to a much greater scale than humans have the time to discover. It is speculated that outside of our universe "our" laws perhaps are different or don't exist. Maybe a God could create these laws in the first place. I'm just playing devils advocate here btw :)

32

Science and Philosephy.- God

by HowTheBibleWasCreated in

jw
friends

when i discovered ervs and #2 chromosome i knew there was no personal god.

the rest is history.

i have always since kept updated in science as much as possible.. .

sunny23

A second point is that the universe started out simple and and has become more complex over time (2nd law of thermodynamics). God(s) would have started out complicated (if we're talking about something that is unchanging).

How exactly has the universe become more complex over time? Do you mean to say it has become more chaotic?

I don't think a 50/50 possibility is a good assesment of the situation. Matter and energy are known to exist. Gods are not. It would be like me saying there is a 50/50 possibility that either the mail man delivered my mail this morning or a flying unicorn delivered it. This is completely irrational. In order to say something is "possible" you either have to have a precident or something of parallel comparison. Without that, you can't know if something is possible or not. And you certainly can't assign a 50/50 variable to it. This is a classic arguement from ignorance fallacy.

I see what you mean and I haven't thought of it that way before. Perhaps a variable shouldn't be assigned to unknowns especially when one of the two unknowns concerns a thing (God) that is unseen by science. However to offer some counter-argument to your claim of the comparison being entirely unparallel: what if God is made up of only matter/energy?

15

WHO would Jesus Christ DIS-FELLOWSHIP? A look at the problem of DF-ing

by Terry in

loving and forgiving are a huge component of jesus' message to his disciples.. in answer to the question as to how many times forgiveness should be offered to an offender, jesus gave the reply, "seventy (times) seven.

" (variously interpreted as either 77 times or a multiple of 70 times 7).. an example is given of a man who owed a considerable sum of money whose debt was forgiven.

this man failed to forgive a much smaller debt owed to him.

sunny23

John 8:7-11 says "When they kept on questioning him, he straightened up and said to them, “Let any one of you who is without sin be the first to throw a stone at her.” Again he stooped down and wrote on the ground.At this, those who heard began to go away one at a time, the older ones first, until only Jesus was left, with the woman still standing there. Jesus straightened up and asked her, “Woman, where are they? Has no one condemned you?”“No one, sir,” she said.“Then neither do I condemn you,”Jesus declared. “Go now and leave your life of sin.”"

The WT org has taken the first 11 verses of John 8 entirely out of their newest 2013 bible! My mother who is still "in," was talking to me on the phone about how distressed she was about my MS brother who has been "casting stones," at my parents for their lacking meeting attendance and cruise ship gambling. It brings her to tears frequently. I quoted John 8:6-11 and she totally agreed that my brother should be more like Jesus. Then I said that I found it weird that the NWT2013 doesn't have this scripture in it anymore. Peaked her curiosity and she is looking into it hopefully. Many tried to use this scripture in defense of DF'ing and once the WT caught wind that there are some other bible translations that ommit this story of Jesus due to it's lower level of reliability, they jumped all over taking it out to enforce their mindset further!

15

WHO would Jesus Christ DIS-FELLOWSHIP? A look at the problem of DF-ing

by Terry in

loving and forgiving are a huge component of jesus' message to his disciples.. in answer to the question as to how many times forgiveness should be offered to an offender, jesus gave the reply, "seventy (times) seven.

" (variously interpreted as either 77 times or a multiple of 70 times 7).. an example is given of a man who owed a considerable sum of money whose debt was forgiven.

this man failed to forgive a much smaller debt owed to him.

sunny23

But, that isn't the only thing these feckless rascals are full of, now is it?

Pecans and tootsie rolls?

32

Science and Philosephy.- God

by HowTheBibleWasCreated in

jw
friends

when i discovered ervs and #2 chromosome i knew there was no personal god.

the rest is history.

i have always since kept updated in science as much as possible.. .

sunny23

If Miracles cannot happen, then God (as a category of provisional causation) ceases to be of interest.

That is to assume that any type of God that exists must be one who performs miracles. Can not a God exist who obeys the laws of science? Ofcourse this would mean denying any passed down "records" of miracles. I agree that a miracle-less God would be less interesting than one who performs miracles if thats what you are alluding to.

22

Your body is your PRIMARY TEACHER (a God-appointed channel is nowhere in the picture)

by Pinku in

balance is the natural state of your body and is maintained by moderation in your habits such as sleep, work, eating, entertainment and thinking.

(mathew7:12; 5:13-16; proverbs 25:16, 27; 1 cor 6:12; 8:9; philippians 4:5) your body sends signs of distress when you cross the limit.. this is true even in subtler areas too.

contrary to the popular notion that happiness or peace come from accumulating things, body teaches it comes from renunciation.

sunny23

Pinku: If you take out all the scriptures you sound EXACTLY like atheist zen teachers and yogis! The mental transformations you are talking about don't require a God. There are at minimum 1billion people who don't believe in a God, 360million are buddhist and follow your exact non-biblical words in your OP here. Many Christians attain a level of mental clarity and enlightenment from some scriptures however most JW's I know including my younger brother have developed EGO's the size of Texas from WT propaganda and inter-congregation competition for privilages. Supression of ego is more easily done without dogmatic doctrine.

Pinku: I hope you actually read responses to your posts. If you follow your own advice you would be open-minded enough to do so without judgment of others words and without attachment to them correct?

14

Ripple Effect

by Yondaime in

on tuesday i was dragged out on service with my mom since shes a permanent pioneer, and once we arrived at the hall i realized there were no brothers, but an abundance of sisters.

i conducted the service meeting with ease, since my dad gave me a formation on how to do it.. then on thursday at my meeting nearly half of the congregation surrounded me and gave me hugs and kisses.

i know about love bombing, its happened to me before, but this was the most insane amount of it ever since i had a demonstration at the district convention.

sunny23

Wait until you live on your own to fade and fade properly. There are plenty of suggestions for the best steps to take to fade and stay in touch with family with minimum ostracizing. Search the topics for it. Basically move away, transfer your publisher card, attend once a month at first, maybe attend your parents memorial and have dinner with them to stay on good terms, and stop going to your congregation, dont answer any knocks at the door ever and if they call then claim to be busy but downloading all the pubs from their newest obsession JW.org

Hang in there and good luck! :)

2596

The Pastor of my Old Church Tried to Re-Convert Me Yesterday

by cofty in

yesterday evening my wife and i were invited to friends house for new year's eve.

we met them when i was a christian and we have kept in touch.

they had a few other friends there as well, including the new church pastor and his wife.

sunny23

we need to figure out..."why the asian tsunami caused such huge loss of life in that area under those social conditions and why it would not have if social conditions and connections were different."Ruby

RUBY: It's true that if there were advanced "tsunami-watch" technologies in place that could alert people hours prior to the wave hitting and get that alert to people who don't have tv or smart phones then yes there would have been far fewer casualties. This doesn't negate the fact that humans have to try and advance socially and technologically to avoid being killed by God's failed creation of an earth. What kind of God creates an earth that he knows will cause devastating catastrophies killing his precious humans only to let them figure it out for themselves? It's like a parent putting their 10yr old in a car on the highway with a brick on the accelerator. Let him figure it out right? Its now the kids struggle for life in a disasterous situation his parent put him in. How is that LOVE!?!

32

Science and Philosephy.- God

by HowTheBibleWasCreated in

jw
friends

when i discovered ervs and #2 chromosome i knew there was no personal god.

the rest is history.

i have always since kept updated in science as much as possible.. .

sunny23

"What have you studied on the subject?"

Enough to know that there are two possibilities of the existence of matter/energy, both are infinite. Creator or no creator, there isnt a third option.. However i tend to lean more towards no creator as of recently. I used to subscribe to Pascals Wager and stick with a creator based on that mindset. Although, the two concepts of a creator always existing or matter/energy always existing on its own are both equally inconcievable to me..

"Dinesh D'Souza is political commentator. Why is his opinion relevant?"

It's an interesting perspective that I heard from him on a 2hr religous debate with sam harris, christopher hitchen, daniel dennet, etc. Just regurgitating something I heard from that clip yesterday, you would have to watch it to really get what i was trying to say. Must he be an astrophysicist to make a valid claim about the universe?

"That question isn't even wrong. Without measurements, how do you think dark matter and energy were discovered?"

I was reffering to the inability to see or measure the physical properties of dark matter since its existence is an inferred hypothesis. "Dark Matter is a kind of matter hypothesized in astronomy and cosmology to account for gravitational effects that appear to be the result of invisible mass. Dark matter cannot be seen directly with telescopes; evidently it neither emitsnor absorbs light or other electromagnetic radiation at any significant level. It is otherwise hypothesized to simply be matter that is not reactant to light. Instead, the existence and properties of dark matter are inferred from its gravitational effects on visible matter, radiation, and the large-scale structure of the universe."wikipedia

32

Science and Philosephy.- God

by HowTheBibleWasCreated in

jw
friends

when i discovered ervs and #2 chromosome i knew there was no personal god.

the rest is history.

i have always since kept updated in science as much as possible.. .

sunny23

I knew there was no personal God.

Science can not be used to prove or disprove a creator entirely. I personally think its a 50/50 possibility considering the fact that it all boils down to either matter/energy thats always existed and exploded to give us galaxies or its a creator thats always existed (granted that creator would have to be careless of life). Science has shown us much and most religions seem to update or even change their doctrines and teachings to accomodate scientific discoveries after they become widely accepted. There are many priests and churches that accept evolution now, however, 30 years ago not so much.

There is still much to be learned. Many scientific theists are pointing to dark matter as existence of God. People like Dinesh D'Souza try to claim that atheists say that resurrection can't happen due to our knowledge of matter concerning re-materialization of matter. Yet D'Souza says the universe is 95% dark matter/energy and we know nothing of the exact qualities of dark matter, therfore christians are ignorant to afterlife just as much as atheists since neither have died yet to re-tell their story and atheists still can't explain things like dark matter. Coded, did those studies accomodate for dark matter and energy which can't be quantified by any scientific instruments? Either way, I say, give it enough time and we will know much about dark matter as well through advancements. Also give it enough time and our sun's luminosity will increase enough to kill off all human life (4billion years don't worry). I enjoy philosophy as well :)