Viviane, I am not trying to woo anybody and aside from the scientific laws I posted about conservation, everything else was just speculative questions to spark response. Also I think there might be misunderstanding when using the word "complex." Concerning the universe, I would use the word "complex" to describe the level of information density or essentially the amount of atoms/molecules within the universe. So I took your statement and Coded's statement to imply that the universe is constantly increasing it's contents of matter/energy. Conservation of energy apparently is accepted as fact within our earth but is only theory in the universe which I JUST learned, and is why I kept pointing out scientific law along with physical cosmology observations of stars being formed at a rate equal to their destruction (within the Milky Way), and the disentigration of galaxies, however other factors inculding acceleration of expansion leads some to theorize that the universe does NOT conserve energy. From my last post I admitted to putting my foot in my mouth when trying to insert room for a "God" where scientific unknowns exist. From my research just now it can not be proven that energy is lost and it can not be proven that new matter is coming into existence at a rate greater than old matter is disappearing in the universe. I apologize for making assumptions that earthly laws definitively apply to the universe. I'll stick to debating religious doctrines and philosophies instead of cosmologies from now on :/
sunny23
JoinedPosts by sunny23
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Science and Philosephy.- God
by HowTheBibleWasCreated inwhen i discovered ervs and #2 chromosome i knew there was no personal god.
the rest is history.
i have always since kept updated in science as much as possible.. .
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The Pastor of my Old Church Tried to Re-Convert Me Yesterday
by cofty inyesterday evening my wife and i were invited to friends house for new year's eve.
we met them when i was a christian and we have kept in touch.
they had a few other friends there as well, including the new church pastor and his wife.
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sunny23
In reference to bohms great analogy: Riddle me this Psacramento.
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Science and Philosephy.- God
by HowTheBibleWasCreated inwhen i discovered ervs and #2 chromosome i knew there was no personal god.
the rest is history.
i have always since kept updated in science as much as possible.. .
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sunny23
What does that have to do with the formation atoms, stars, planets and life?
Was trying to say that with formation there is equal destruction. There have been literally entire galaxies that have disintegrated. Stars form and others burn out. Some stars are devoured by black holes and spit out as gamma rays that hit the earth. Therefore the universe isn't becoming more complex, its doing the same thing it has always done since the beginning. You tried to use formation of stars to dismiss this.
Light is 100% physical, not technically.
You are right, i was wrong, it is visible, has energy, momentum, and gravitational field but no mass.
I really don't believe a God exists, was trying to see what opinions and various speculations I could draw from assuming YES to your three questions, "That God is physical? No special powers? Can be destroyed?"
I was trying to use dark matter the same way that theists have used the unknown details of Gravity to imply a God, however on further thought its no different. We see the effects of gravity everyday and just because we don't know exactly how it works doesn''t imply divine intervention and the same holds true of dark matter even though for some reason at first I thought it to be different somehow. Using the current unknowns and implying them to another even more unknown thing like a god is bad form and what Dinesh D'Souza was using. Ok so I jabbered here without thinking first, sorry, musta been hungry or something.
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WHO would Jesus Christ DIS-FELLOWSHIP? A look at the problem of DF-ing
by Terry inloving and forgiving are a huge component of jesus' message to his disciples.. in answer to the question as to how many times forgiveness should be offered to an offender, jesus gave the reply, "seventy (times) seven.
" (variously interpreted as either 77 times or a multiple of 70 times 7).. an example is given of a man who owed a considerable sum of money whose debt was forgiven.
this man failed to forgive a much smaller debt owed to him.
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sunny23
This time perhaps they just wanted to save on ink and paper
Save 1/3 of one side of one page of text and put in several pages of color images in the back? I think conserving a miniscule amount of text was not even thought of.
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Science and Philosephy.- God
by HowTheBibleWasCreated inwhen i discovered ervs and #2 chromosome i knew there was no personal god.
the rest is history.
i have always since kept updated in science as much as possible.. .
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sunny23
The formation of atoms, molecules, stars, planets, heavier elements, life.
I thought the current consensus was that all the matter in the universe we see and feel was made right at the Big Bang. Matter is not still being created, its just transforming just like they teach us in school: energy doesn’t get created or destroyed, it only transforms or conserves (conservation of energy).
What would that mean? That God is physical? No special powers? Can be destroyed?
Sure, light is technically physical and many used to believe light from the sun was a phenomenon (a god or super power/miracle of sorts). Humans can manipulate matter and convert neutrons to protons. Perhaps an entity like a God could manipulate matter and energy(obeying laws) to a much greater scale than humans have the time to discover. It is speculated that outside of our universe "our" laws perhaps are different or don't exist. Maybe a God could create these laws in the first place. I'm just playing devils advocate here btw :)
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Science and Philosephy.- God
by HowTheBibleWasCreated inwhen i discovered ervs and #2 chromosome i knew there was no personal god.
the rest is history.
i have always since kept updated in science as much as possible.. .
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sunny23
A second point is that the universe started out simple and and has become more complex over time (2nd law of thermodynamics). God(s) would have started out complicated (if we're talking about something that is unchanging).
How exactly has the universe become more complex over time? Do you mean to say it has become more chaotic?
I don't think a 50/50 possibility is a good assesment of the situation. Matter and energy are known to exist. Gods are not. It would be like me saying there is a 50/50 possibility that either the mail man delivered my mail this morning or a flying unicorn delivered it. This is completely irrational. In order to say something is "possible" you either have to have a precident or something of parallel comparison. Without that, you can't know if something is possible or not. And you certainly can't assign a 50/50 variable to it. This is a classic arguement from ignorance fallacy.
I see what you mean and I haven't thought of it that way before. Perhaps a variable shouldn't be assigned to unknowns especially when one of the two unknowns concerns a thing (God) that is unseen by science. However to offer some counter-argument to your claim of the comparison being entirely unparallel: what if God is made up of only matter/energy?
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WHO would Jesus Christ DIS-FELLOWSHIP? A look at the problem of DF-ing
by Terry inloving and forgiving are a huge component of jesus' message to his disciples.. in answer to the question as to how many times forgiveness should be offered to an offender, jesus gave the reply, "seventy (times) seven.
" (variously interpreted as either 77 times or a multiple of 70 times 7).. an example is given of a man who owed a considerable sum of money whose debt was forgiven.
this man failed to forgive a much smaller debt owed to him.
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sunny23
John 8:7-11 says "When they kept on questioning him, he straightened up and said to them, “Let any one of you who is without sin be the first to throw a stone at her.” Again he stooped down and wrote on the ground.At this, those who heard began to go away one at a time, the older ones first, until only Jesus was left, with the woman still standing there. Jesus straightened up and asked her, “Woman, where are they? Has no one condemned you?”“No one, sir,” she said.“Then neither do I condemn you,”Jesus declared. “Go now and leave your life of sin.”"
The WT org has taken the first 11 verses of John 8 entirely out of their newest 2013 bible! My mother who is still "in," was talking to me on the phone about how distressed she was about my MS brother who has been "casting stones," at my parents for their lacking meeting attendance and cruise ship gambling. It brings her to tears frequently. I quoted John 8:6-11 and she totally agreed that my brother should be more like Jesus. Then I said that I found it weird that the NWT2013 doesn't have this scripture in it anymore. Peaked her curiosity and she is looking into it hopefully. Many tried to use this scripture in defense of DF'ing and once the WT caught wind that there are some other bible translations that ommit this story of Jesus due to it's lower level of reliability, they jumped all over taking it out to enforce their mindset further!
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WHO would Jesus Christ DIS-FELLOWSHIP? A look at the problem of DF-ing
by Terry inloving and forgiving are a huge component of jesus' message to his disciples.. in answer to the question as to how many times forgiveness should be offered to an offender, jesus gave the reply, "seventy (times) seven.
" (variously interpreted as either 77 times or a multiple of 70 times 7).. an example is given of a man who owed a considerable sum of money whose debt was forgiven.
this man failed to forgive a much smaller debt owed to him.
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sunny23
But, that isn't the only thing these feckless rascals are full of, now is it?
Pecans and tootsie rolls?
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Science and Philosephy.- God
by HowTheBibleWasCreated inwhen i discovered ervs and #2 chromosome i knew there was no personal god.
the rest is history.
i have always since kept updated in science as much as possible.. .
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sunny23
If Miracles cannot happen, then God (as a category of provisional causation) ceases to be of interest.
That is to assume that any type of God that exists must be one who performs miracles. Can not a God exist who obeys the laws of science? Ofcourse this would mean denying any passed down "records" of miracles. I agree that a miracle-less God would be less interesting than one who performs miracles if thats what you are alluding to.
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Your body is your PRIMARY TEACHER (a God-appointed channel is nowhere in the picture)
by Pinku inbalance is the natural state of your body and is maintained by moderation in your habits such as sleep, work, eating, entertainment and thinking.
(mathew7:12; 5:13-16; proverbs 25:16, 27; 1 cor 6:12; 8:9; philippians 4:5) your body sends signs of distress when you cross the limit.. this is true even in subtler areas too.
contrary to the popular notion that happiness or peace come from accumulating things, body teaches it comes from renunciation.
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sunny23
Pinku: If you take out all the scriptures you sound EXACTLY like atheist zen teachers and yogis! The mental transformations you are talking about don't require a God. There are at minimum 1billion people who don't believe in a God, 360million are buddhist and follow your exact non-biblical words in your OP here. Many Christians attain a level of mental clarity and enlightenment from some scriptures however most JW's I know including my younger brother have developed EGO's the size of Texas from WT propaganda and inter-congregation competition for privilages. Supression of ego is more easily done without dogmatic doctrine.
Pinku: I hope you actually read responses to your posts. If you follow your own advice you would be open-minded enough to do so without judgment of others words and without attachment to them correct?
