Posts by Viviane

23

Religion without revelation - any examples from the past?

by EdenOne in

i'm researching on the common trait of mostly every religion coming from pre-humanist times, and that would be, the notion of "revelation", that is, that at the beginning of every [i say this with caution because i'm admitting to exceptions] religion there is some sort of "revelation" from supernatural being(s) of some sort.. my question is: do you know of any example of religions from the past that you can confidently say that were exempt from "revelation"?

this is not the same as asking if there were religions without gods, or religions of nature.

i'm not even considering what i understand as philosophical-ethical systems, such as confucionism or platonism my purpose is to find out if, at the starting point of all religions of the past, there is a "revelation", or merely "observation / contemplation".

Viviane

Jainism is one of the oldest religions and I believe it meets your requirments of no purported revelation, enlightenment from a supernatural origin, or mystical connection with a supernatural world.

"According to Jains, souls are intrinsically pure and possess the qualities of infinite knowledge, infinite perception, infinite bliss and infinite energy. [ 28 ] In contemporary experience, however, these qualities are found to be defiled and obstructed, on account of the soul's association with a substance called karma over an eternity of beginningless time"

As soon as the concept of soul is introduced, there is a mystical connection with a supernatural world.

80

God is not an element both in religious fanaticism and atheism alike

by exWTslave in

in my intimate conversations with many of my atheists friends i have found that their real problem is the human rights abuse of the religious fanaticssomething which god hates (not the lack of proof for gods existence) (means when the religions went to one extreme, their opponents go to another extremethus god is not at all an element in religious fanaticism and atheism alike) atheists shun, belittle or resist proofs for the existence of god, because they fear it will only further strengthen the religion from which the fanaticism arisethus object of atheists attack is fanaticism (not god) .

hence what atheists do is really a service to the humanity (while fanaticism is a crime against humanity).

hence when the atheists ask for proof for the existence of god, one need not take it seriously.

Viviane

Katos: reading speed and intelligence are often linked.

Simon, the article was just under 3000 words. It's unpossible that it took less than 10 minutes to read that!

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God is not an element both in religious fanaticism and atheism alike

by exWTslave in

in my intimate conversations with many of my atheists friends i have found that their real problem is the human rights abuse of the religious fanaticssomething which god hates (not the lack of proof for gods existence) (means when the religions went to one extreme, their opponents go to another extremethus god is not at all an element in religious fanaticism and atheism alike) atheists shun, belittle or resist proofs for the existence of god, because they fear it will only further strengthen the religion from which the fanaticism arisethus object of atheists attack is fanaticism (not god) .

hence what atheists do is really a service to the humanity (while fanaticism is a crime against humanity).

hence when the atheists ask for proof for the existence of god, one need not take it seriously.

Viviane

Your comment came after 13 minutes of my posting that link—it is obvious that you had only a CURSORY look on them!

So now your're claiming to know how fast I read, type and whether or not I had read that previously? How ignorant of you.

In any event, being ignorant doesn't get you off the hook.

Since you believe that I, as an atheist, only am an atheist because I seek to be free from moral constraint, please enlighten me specifically as to which moral contraint I am lacking.

80

God is not an element both in religious fanaticism and atheism alike

by exWTslave in

in my intimate conversations with many of my atheists friends i have found that their real problem is the human rights abuse of the religious fanaticssomething which god hates (not the lack of proof for gods existence) (means when the religions went to one extreme, their opponents go to another extremethus god is not at all an element in religious fanaticism and atheism alike) atheists shun, belittle or resist proofs for the existence of god, because they fear it will only further strengthen the religion from which the fanaticism arisethus object of atheists attack is fanaticism (not god) .

hence what atheists do is really a service to the humanity (while fanaticism is a crime against humanity).

hence when the atheists ask for proof for the existence of god, one need not take it seriously.

Viviane

You could have read the links before your could comment negatively on them!

We both quoted from them, so clearly we DID read them.

Since you believe that I, as an atheist, only am an atheist because I seek to be free from moral constraint, please enlighten me specifically as to which moral contraint I am lacking.

80

God is not an element both in religious fanaticism and atheism alike

by exWTslave in

in my intimate conversations with many of my atheists friends i have found that their real problem is the human rights abuse of the religious fanaticssomething which god hates (not the lack of proof for gods existence) (means when the religions went to one extreme, their opponents go to another extremethus god is not at all an element in religious fanaticism and atheism alike) atheists shun, belittle or resist proofs for the existence of god, because they fear it will only further strengthen the religion from which the fanaticism arisethus object of atheists attack is fanaticism (not god) .

hence what atheists do is really a service to the humanity (while fanaticism is a crime against humanity).

hence when the atheists ask for proof for the existence of god, one need not take it seriously.

Viviane

All your objections are VERY EFFECTIVELY COUNTERED here:

Kalos, from the first link is one of the most idiotic and ignorant things I have ever read, "The notion of God, put another way, is a threat to humanity’s desire to be free from burdensome moral constraint"

What morals do you imagine I am ignoring? I do volunteer work with both the needy and rescue animals, I donate time and money. I have a normal job, I am not having sex outside of marriage, I don't do drugs, rarely drink, don't steal, have never murdered anyone, etc.

Since you clearly feel that I, being an atheist, have no moral constraint, what specific moral sins do you imagine I am committing?

80

God is not an element both in religious fanaticism and atheism alike

by exWTslave in

in my intimate conversations with many of my atheists friends i have found that their real problem is the human rights abuse of the religious fanaticssomething which god hates (not the lack of proof for gods existence) (means when the religions went to one extreme, their opponents go to another extremethus god is not at all an element in religious fanaticism and atheism alike) atheists shun, belittle or resist proofs for the existence of god, because they fear it will only further strengthen the religion from which the fanaticism arisethus object of atheists attack is fanaticism (not god) .

hence what atheists do is really a service to the humanity (while fanaticism is a crime against humanity).

hence when the atheists ask for proof for the existence of god, one need not take it seriously.

Viviane

Resorting to pure ASSERTION and LABELLING using words such as these is an indirect way of admitting you have nothing in your arsenal to counter what you read.

Your response is a perfectly beautiful example of a meaningless cesspool of derp.

Your imaginary sky daddy is just that, imaginary. What I read is an attempt to convince people that they can make fantastical claims and somehow expect to be taken seriously. It's just not so. Your reasoning and critical thinking skills are non-existant. You want and expect your childish beliefs to be respected, yet you can't even answer in a coherent fashion even the simplest of questions.

It's sad, utterly and pathetically sad.

80

God is not an element both in religious fanaticism and atheism alike

by exWTslave in

in my intimate conversations with many of my atheists friends i have found that their real problem is the human rights abuse of the religious fanaticssomething which god hates (not the lack of proof for gods existence) (means when the religions went to one extreme, their opponents go to another extremethus god is not at all an element in religious fanaticism and atheism alike) atheists shun, belittle or resist proofs for the existence of god, because they fear it will only further strengthen the religion from which the fanaticism arisethus object of atheists attack is fanaticism (not god) .

hence what atheists do is really a service to the humanity (while fanaticism is a crime against humanity).

hence when the atheists ask for proof for the existence of god, one need not take it seriously.

Viviane

Hence when the atheists ask for proof for the existence of God, one need not take it seriously.

You can't take it seriously because you don't have any. Taking it seriously would force you to admit you've none or, as you amply demonstrated, send you into a swirling cesspool of nonsensical, meaningless derp.

118

Christian Pastors ORDERED to Marry Gays or Face JAIL TIME & FINES $$$

by oneyeopen in

o.k just worked out how to start a new post/thread, just came across this and wanted to share with anyone that may be interested.. http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2014/oct/20/idaho-citys-ordinance-tells-pastors-to-marry-gays-/.

coeur dalene, idaho, city officials have laid down the law to christian pastors within their community, telling them bluntly via an ordinance that if they refuse to marry homosexuals, they will face jail time and fines.. read more: http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2014/oct/20/idaho-citys-ordinance-tells-pastors-to-marry-gays-/#ixzz3ibe4kyvq follow us: @washtimes on twitter.

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Viviane

A good pastor won't marry people who shouldn't get married and should stay in the couple's life to see how they are doing.

A bad pastor is one who thinks he is qualified to decide who should be in a relationship.

118

Christian Pastors ORDERED to Marry Gays or Face JAIL TIME & FINES $$$

by oneyeopen in

o.k just worked out how to start a new post/thread, just came across this and wanted to share with anyone that may be interested.. http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2014/oct/20/idaho-citys-ordinance-tells-pastors-to-marry-gays-/.

coeur dalene, idaho, city officials have laid down the law to christian pastors within their community, telling them bluntly via an ordinance that if they refuse to marry homosexuals, they will face jail time and fines.. read more: http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2014/oct/20/idaho-citys-ordinance-tells-pastors-to-marry-gays-/#ixzz3ibe4kyvq follow us: @washtimes on twitter.

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Viviane

Viviane tells me that no one is being forced to do anything that is against their religion.

That's not at all what I said.

Now, I am not an intellectual

The power to remedy that is in your hands.

Okay, I'm a dumbass, I admit it, but doesn't that article plainly say, "Christian Pastors within their community"? Indicating religions/churches beyond The Hitching Post?

It does. That's, however, inaccurate.

Aren't they using The Hitching Post as an example to send a message to churches that they better fall in line, or else?

There is nothing to indicate that at all. Also, there is an assumption that there is something to fall in line with. What line, specifically, are you thinking of?

I know Viviane will say, "So what? What if they do?"

You know very little if you think you know that.

118

Christian Pastors ORDERED to Marry Gays or Face JAIL TIME & FINES $$$

by oneyeopen in

o.k just worked out how to start a new post/thread, just came across this and wanted to share with anyone that may be interested.. http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2014/oct/20/idaho-citys-ordinance-tells-pastors-to-marry-gays-/.

coeur dalene, idaho, city officials have laid down the law to christian pastors within their community, telling them bluntly via an ordinance that if they refuse to marry homosexuals, they will face jail time and fines.. read more: http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2014/oct/20/idaho-citys-ordinance-tells-pastors-to-marry-gays-/#ixzz3ibe4kyvq follow us: @washtimes on twitter.

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Viviane

What is wrong with this statement?

I have to assume you mean the statement: "I can see maybe enforcing a public wedding chapel business to treat everyone equal, but to force individuals to go against their bible beliefs is just wrong in this country."

What is wrong with it is it would allow this:

I am allowed to keep slaves because of a sincerely held Biblical belief.

I am allowed to sell my children because of a sincerely held Biblical belief.

I am allowed to have multiple wives because of a sincerely held Biblical belief.

I am allowed to stone people to death for what I percieve as offenses against God due to a sincerely held Biblical belief.

As I wrote, we restrict people from practicing sincerely held Biblical beliefs all the time and for good reason. Since no pastor, acting in the capacity of a pastor, is being forced to perform gay marriages, it is a moot point, it's the argumentative equivalent of arguing that you don't believe puppies should be allowed to have driver's license.