Posts by Viviane

113

Are you religious or are you spiritual? Wake up to what?

by Deltawave in

there is a huge difference between been religious and been spiritual.

been religious is about been superior to others in the sight of god.

however, been spiritual is about self awareness, inner peace and unity with the natural world.

Viviane

Wow Viviane, your mind is amazing.

Indeed it is. You're still ducking the question.

Who should I believe? You or the person before or after you claiming to have it right about spirituality when you are all claiming different things?

Jesus would be heavily influenced by Judaism as he was raised under it. Bhudda was raised in a hindu culture which I fluency his words too. But when you look at what these men said there is a common thread.

Yes, of course. No one denied that in any way. You're still ducking the question.

Who should I believe? You or the person before or after you claiming to have it right about spirituality when you are all claiming different things?

Love yourself
Love your neighbours
Cultivate the inner person/ mind and heart.

Buddha taught that getting rid of cravings and desire were the key to happiness. How is self denial of pleasure, asceticism, loving yourself? How is denying yourself sexual pleasure or a good meal with a loved one loving yourself?

Jesus taught that the law was perfect, therefore beating slaves to the point of death was great. That same perfect law endorsed forcing raped virgins to marry their rapist. How is that loving your neighbor?

I don't beleive Jesus desired his followers to claim spirituality by:
Underlining a study book
Answering set question correctly to a paragraph
Doing jobs at a Kingdom hall to show spiritual advancement.

And I'm not asking about any of that. You're ducking the question.

Who should I believe? You or the person before or after you claiming to have it right about spirituality when you are all claiming different things?

130

Atheist Miracles

by Perry in

jw
friends

i reworded a variation of a common critique of atheists to my own liking.

no, i do not hate atheists, i love them!

they keep me from getting bored.

Viviane

Shame on you Perry, your not known to be intellectually dishonest

Odd, that's exactly what I think of when Perry comes to mind.

113

Are you religious or are you spiritual? Wake up to what?

by Deltawave in

there is a huge difference between been religious and been spiritual.

been religious is about been superior to others in the sight of god.

however, been spiritual is about self awareness, inner peace and unity with the natural world.

Viviane

Viviane, my comment above is neither to promote myself or the teachings of a religious order.

I never said it was. You're simply ducking the question I posed to you.

Who should I believe? You or the person before or after you claiming to have it right about spirituality when you are all claiming different things?

When you take away religious dogma and read what the great spiritual leaders actually said they all were United in their views as to the keys to a happy life.

They all said different things. Which of them should I believe? Is there any proof that following the Law or meditating and denying yourself pleasure in life will make you a better person?

Religion can always be twisted, but the fact that the words and teachings of these men have effected the minds and hearts of billions shows there must be truth in their words.

So, using that logic, it's a "fact" that there must have been truth Stalin's words, Pol Pot, Hitler, etc.

They all spoke out against organised religions and taught true spirituality is cultivated within and that outward religious piety hindered true spirituality.

No, not quite. Jesus spoke out against the people in charge, but was himself called a rabbi and said the Law of his religion (which endorsed slavery, rape and murder) was perfect and would never pass away.

Curious, have you actually read what Jesus said or are you basing this on what you imagine Jesus to have said?

130

Atheist Miracles

by Perry in

jw
friends

i reworded a variation of a common critique of atheists to my own liking.

no, i do not hate atheists, i love them!

they keep me from getting bored.

Viviane

I have presented the doctrinal statement that atheist scientists adhere to as stated by Professor Lewontin several times over the years. I have never had any atheist deny those tenets on this forum.

No, you haven't because it's impossible. It's a lie. Atheists simply lack belief in god. They aren't organized and don't have "doctrine". Nor do scientists.

You're being completely dishonest.

113

Are you religious or are you spiritual? Wake up to what?

by Deltawave in

there is a huge difference between been religious and been spiritual.

been religious is about been superior to others in the sight of god.

however, been spiritual is about self awareness, inner peace and unity with the natural world.

Viviane

Who should I believe, you or the person before your or the person after you that tells me something very different about what spirituality is, all of you claiming to have it right?

160

"The organisation is imperfect, but it doesn't affect my relationship with Jehovah"

by Alive! in

i've noted active, devoted jw's state the above.. and, it's not a problem for me to remain trusting of god, i just don't trust religions or men.. recently, a member of this forum stated that he remains an active jw, in the family of god's people, wanting to encourage and do good - whilst recognising that the pastoral leaders (the gb) have shipwrecked the faith of many, being unsound scripturally etc, etc.. stop and think about this - the bible says to not follow after those who lie and hurt the faith of "little ones".. the pharisees were accused of traversing over lands and expending much energy to make a single convert - only for that convert to end up worse of than he started off with.. it's one thing to not believe this is the 'truth' and feeling the awful pressure of managing ones life, trying not to lose ones family.. it's quite another thing to declare oneself to be a christian believer of god's jw household, and somehow believe the god of love would use corrupt liars to parade as jesus' brothers in the urgency of last days.

really?

and, to then visibly promote faith in corrupt men, and try to bring converts into a place where the rulership is wrong.. some of us are dying from hurt here.......give me a break..

Viviane

I thought the whole point of Jesus and the apostles was to free people from oppressive religious systems.

Religions keep saying that because they want to use the OT when it suits them without having to deal with the genocide, rape, slavery and murder bits that God loved, but they forget Jesus saying the Law was perfect, the same that endorsed all of that horrible stuff.

Reading the Bible and actually reading what it says rather than what people tell you it says is rather eye opening.

160

"The organisation is imperfect, but it doesn't affect my relationship with Jehovah"

by Alive! in

i've noted active, devoted jw's state the above.. and, it's not a problem for me to remain trusting of god, i just don't trust religions or men.. recently, a member of this forum stated that he remains an active jw, in the family of god's people, wanting to encourage and do good - whilst recognising that the pastoral leaders (the gb) have shipwrecked the faith of many, being unsound scripturally etc, etc.. stop and think about this - the bible says to not follow after those who lie and hurt the faith of "little ones".. the pharisees were accused of traversing over lands and expending much energy to make a single convert - only for that convert to end up worse of than he started off with.. it's one thing to not believe this is the 'truth' and feeling the awful pressure of managing ones life, trying not to lose ones family.. it's quite another thing to declare oneself to be a christian believer of god's jw household, and somehow believe the god of love would use corrupt liars to parade as jesus' brothers in the urgency of last days.

really?

and, to then visibly promote faith in corrupt men, and try to bring converts into a place where the rulership is wrong.. some of us are dying from hurt here.......give me a break..

Viviane

There's a tremendous amount of vitriol in the comments, both generally and in some cases toward me directly, that I find quite curious and immensely telling. I'm not certain what motivates some to such negativity and animus.

BJ, your lies and support for an organization that has killed, endorsed sacrificing your life, requires absolute devotion to an ever changing, vapid theology and allowes child rape might factor in to that a bit.

130

Atheist Miracles

by Perry in

jw
friends

i reworded a variation of a common critique of atheists to my own liking.

no, i do not hate atheists, i love them!

they keep me from getting bored.

Viviane

Were you aware that a new study seems to confirm the cosmological constant?

So what? In what way does that change your ignorance of science or dishonesty about your religion?

This puts atheists in the ironic position of believing in the very same things that they claim not to believe in because of lack of evidence.

Yes. We get it. You don't understand science or logic or, really, anything you talk about. It's no different that being determined to show the world you can poop by pooping in front of everyone. When you're three, it's amusing and something you get congratulating for. Pooping your determined and self imposed ignorance and lack of understanding anything at your age is just horrible for everyone involved.

9

This Good News of the Kingdom - Zion's Watchtower - Zionism - The End

by LAWHFol in

i hope you're all doing well.. i haven't written for a while, my previous screen name was objectivetruth btw.

i look forward to resuming some good conversations with my jw.com family.. i haven't been active much of late, however a topic that i have continued to consider & study is modern day israel & the early watchtower's teachings on this topic.. this is part 1 - i'll post multiple posts, to help readers follow my train of thought.. first i'll cover the teachings and overall belief's of the watchtower on the jew's , israel, and god's plan for the jew's.. i've read a lot of the early publications.

the 2 most insightful publications, for me to read were (links to the book's in pdf format highlighted in blue) :.

Viviane

One thing I'll say before responding, is I have no Agenda, and I have no Bias.

Well that clearly is not true. You are attempting to show that the WT is false and your points are valid. There is nothing wrong with having agenda.

However on the Other end, it seems like It HAS to be a Start of the Proper State of Israel, which will eventually turn into Zion.

*sigh* ... this is why discussing things with Christians like wrestling with an eel covered in oil. In an earlier post you called it undeniable proof of the fulfillment of prophecy. Now it HAS to the the start of what will eventually fulfill the prophecy.

This is why Christians use the word "proof" so wrong. Everything is proof of the interpretation until suddenly it's not.

The Hebrew words used in place of Moment are pa·'am e·chat; - Meaning "All at Once" The Significant part of Isaiah 66:8 is "e·chad, be·yo·vm" or "in one Day"
Focusing on the "One Day" 1948 Definitively matches the Description - May 14 1948: The term of the British Mandate ends. The State of Israel is established at 4 pm on May 14, 1948

And "all at once" also doesn't mean "in one day". Focusing on what words actually mean, so far nothing you've used matches objective reality. This is purely just your ideas layered on top of poetic language that, without the benefit of hindsight, would give you no clue as to the "prophecy".
I obviously didn't predict any of these Events, I didn't even know the first thing about them for most of my life. Sometimes Men Prophesy, and other Times Men Translate Prophecy
You miss the point. You say these "prophecies" that foretell the future have fulfillment. They don't. They are just poetic language. You are fitting past events to vague language. Without the benefit of history, simply reading the prophecy, there is absolutely no way anyone could, 50 years before the events happened, match the events you claim fulfilled to the prophecy to the prophecy.

What are your thoughts on this Prediction?
My thoughts are that you are matching vague language to events with the benefit of foresight.
For instance. A jubilee was one year. It happened in 50 year cycles, meaning 8 jubilees would actually be 8 years, not 400. Also, he didn't give dates, so get one number correct is certainly possible purely with luck. Also, you're incorrectly attempting to claim "no man's land" applies to all of Israel when your specific example involves only the Palestinian debate. Also, it's always been inhabited.
Without making up a lot of things, using weird and twisted definitions and pretzel logic, there is no way to make it fit.

9

This Good News of the Kingdom - Zion's Watchtower - Zionism - The End

by LAWHFol in

i hope you're all doing well.. i haven't written for a while, my previous screen name was objectivetruth btw.

i look forward to resuming some good conversations with my jw.com family.. i haven't been active much of late, however a topic that i have continued to consider & study is modern day israel & the early watchtower's teachings on this topic.. this is part 1 - i'll post multiple posts, to help readers follow my train of thought.. first i'll cover the teachings and overall belief's of the watchtower on the jew's , israel, and god's plan for the jew's.. i've read a lot of the early publications.

the 2 most insightful publications, for me to read were (links to the book's in pdf format highlighted in blue) :.

Viviane

How do you interpret / View these Scriptures

I don't interpret them. I simply look at them and ask "Did this happen exactly as described with specific details?"

The answer is no. The U.N. created the nation of Israel as it exists today, not god. It's a secular nation, not a theocracy as the bible indicates it would be. Zion in labor is not in any way a description of Jews declaring independence, a 24 hour day is not a moment. All of that is simply YOU trying to layer your specific interpretation of vague and poetic language onto specific events. Nothing more.

If you still place any trust in the Bible, I'm interested to hear your views on these scriptures, If not, I can show you some other occurrences, that I view as proofs.

You viewing something as proof doesn't make it actual proof. I would advise you to read the scriptures, the prophecies purely as written and then attempt to determine if, without your knowledge of history, if there is anyway you could possibly have predicted specifically the events you claim match.

If not, it's not actually prophecy then, is it?