Posts by Viviane

175

How confident are you about various so called facts?

by slimboyfat in

no facts about the world are absolutely certain.

that being the case i wonder how others would rank amd rate their confidence in various factual statements about the world.

i am going to rate my confidence in ten items of "knowledge" as a percentage.

Viviane

100% - I can see it myself from a plane (although it's not a perfect sphere)

I only came here to say "oblate spheroid".

372

On respect for the belief of others. Sorry for the long post

by StarTrekAngel in

i am inclined to start this thread in response to some comments made in other threads.

i have been coming around these forum for quite some time now so whatever you find in here is not just related to something someone may have said this week.

it can go months back as well.. i have seen many who claim to respect the belief of others but when it comes down to applying it into practice, things take a whole different tune.

Viviane

That is not how this unfolded. You disagreed with Eden's "belief" that you had "insisted". In your initial reaction to Eden you asked him to explain in detail. But, you did not leave it there, you attacked "the believer" questioning whether anyone should trust another word he says, that every word was suspect as he had "already lied". You did that before he answered your request with a detailed explanation. You can disagree with his explanation, but don't reconstruct the order of events.

Eden did lie. I never insisted. Any claim to the contrary is a lie. How much more simple can it be?

Why, prior to Eden going on a protracted defense did you call into question his integrity? This has been done to you several times, it is wrong. I find it entirely illustrative of the OP, of attacking the believer instead of the belief.

Why would I call into question the integrity of someone that is actively lying? Because they are actively lying.

The question is whether it is a lie. It is vernacular usage despite your insistence "it isn't". Further, the question is whether it is justified to immediately launch into an attack on a "liar" and the entire integrity of a poster based upon this expression.

Eden claimed I was "insisting" on something when I in reality said "Examples of urbanity would include..". Previously, to another post, I had written "Do you have specific examples?". Nowhere did I ever "insist" on anything. I didn't do anything that a synonym for insist.

What I did was ask questions, namely that if someone was willing to lie, why should they be trusted? Why shouldn't we call into question that persons character. I said if you do that, THEN we would have to call his character into question. I never said "You have no character, you're a liar, you're untrustworthy".

Your example of "dinner's ready" to illustrate my lazy thinking is an irrelevant counter. It neither repeats the request indirectly nor uses shame as a form of press. My two examples did.

It illustrates what happened, not what is claimed to have happened.

I concede that using insist this way is, at worse, imprecise. It is not a lie. Your post pressed Eden to answer at risk of being labeled discourteous.

The exact quote: Agreed. Urbanity would include thing like, oh, say, if you make accusations, being able to prove it. It's just common courtesy.

Not only did I not "insist", I didn't even make a request of any type. If Eden felt pressured, it was pressure of his own making by deciding on making claims without backing them up. I didn't make him do that nor ask him for proof.

372

On respect for the belief of others. Sorry for the long post

by StarTrekAngel in

i am inclined to start this thread in response to some comments made in other threads.

i have been coming around these forum for quite some time now so whatever you find in here is not just related to something someone may have said this week.

it can go months back as well.. i have seen many who claim to respect the belief of others but when it comes down to applying it into practice, things take a whole different tune.

Viviane

When I said some people must write from the heart, i actually meant posters should be allowed to express themselfs without the fear of those words being held up to the light and ridiculed with a different context to that in which they were written.

What does "writing from the heart" have to do with someone quote-mining?

372

On respect for the belief of others. Sorry for the long post

by StarTrekAngel in

i am inclined to start this thread in response to some comments made in other threads.

i have been coming around these forum for quite some time now so whatever you find in here is not just related to something someone may have said this week.

it can go months back as well.. i have seen many who claim to respect the belief of others but when it comes down to applying it into practice, things take a whole different tune.

Viviane

Some posters must write from the heart, and they should be at liberty to do so. They cannot do that if the ideas from the heart are crushed without sensitivity.

Yes, they can. They just can't expect a free pass because it's "from the heart". If a WT apologist came on this forum and wrote, from the heart because they really really really believe they did the right thing in letting their child die rather than get a transfusion, would you support that?

372

On respect for the belief of others. Sorry for the long post

by StarTrekAngel in

i am inclined to start this thread in response to some comments made in other threads.

i have been coming around these forum for quite some time now so whatever you find in here is not just related to something someone may have said this week.

it can go months back as well.. i have seen many who claim to respect the belief of others but when it comes down to applying it into practice, things take a whole different tune.

Viviane

I think that this is a fundamental issue on this thread - emotion vs. rationality.

I don't know if that is true. For instance, if someone I work with came to me with a question, say "Hey Viv, take a look at this configuration for a computing system and the projected workload. Will this system meet the workload requirements?", I would then do some math. There are almost always things we don't know, things we can't plan or calculate for in exercises like this, so you have to used past experience, educated guesses, etc.. If, after looking at everything, compiling what we do know with the things we had to makes assumptions or best guesses for and doing the math, etc., would it be an emotional belief to say "I believe this design will be adequate"?

372

On respect for the belief of others. Sorry for the long post

by StarTrekAngel in

i am inclined to start this thread in response to some comments made in other threads.

i have been coming around these forum for quite some time now so whatever you find in here is not just related to something someone may have said this week.

it can go months back as well.. i have seen many who claim to respect the belief of others but when it comes down to applying it into practice, things take a whole different tune.

Viviane

I don't get how that is a lie. If it is "ignorance at best" why not go with that?

Because I prefer "going with reality". If someone has to write a long, detailed explanation of "well, yeah, you didn't really do this but here is why I feel justified in claiming it anyway", it's not ignorance. It's a rationalized lie.

Pointing out a discourtesy is, in my kneck of the woods, pressing someone.

No, it isn't.

Where I am "since you insist" is a pretty common term for when you are pressed or shamed into something

See, you're doing it now as well. Using a synonym of a synonym of a kinda close idea to link a word that doesn't at all mean what you're now claiming it does. Shame is in no way a synonym of "insist". Using such lazy thinking, saying "dinner's ready" is insisting someone eat.

Can we get back on topic

We are on topic. Some people believe it's sometimes justified to rationalize a lie if they can connect enough words together, apparently.

I believe that is untrue

372

On respect for the belief of others. Sorry for the long post

by StarTrekAngel in

i am inclined to start this thread in response to some comments made in other threads.

i have been coming around these forum for quite some time now so whatever you find in here is not just related to something someone may have said this week.

it can go months back as well.. i have seen many who claim to respect the belief of others but when it comes down to applying it into practice, things take a whole different tune.

Viviane

The amazing thing is, Eden actually took the time to show you why he felt you insisted and you called it BS.

I said that to do a certain thing was common courtesy.There is no definition by which that is insisting. Eden feeling a certain way doesn't make it reality and claiming it over and over is ignorance at best, dishonesty at worst.

Repeatedly framing what is, at worst, a misreading as a terrible reputation destroying lie is disproportionate in the extreme. Notwithstanding the shoddy way you are being treated (and you are) I rather hoped you would retract that. I think it would do you credit (I am aware you don't care).

Repeated untrue claims is not a simple misreading, particularly when that person posts why they feels justified in making what they admit aren't accurate claims.

I stand by what I said.

104

Farewell

by EdenOne in

"don't be dismayed by good-byes.

a farewell is necessary before you can meet again.

and meeting again, after moments or lifetimes, is certain for those who are friends.

Viviane

Viviane is an ass that has no basis for any arguments.
Viv is a bit of a bully
Viviane is inflexible
Life is better if you are willing to tolerate the likes of Viviane, no matter what insults they hurl against you
Don't let bullies do you in now
the pathological naysayer won
An insecure bully

Apparently Viv killed Laura Palmer.

372

On respect for the belief of others. Sorry for the long post

by StarTrekAngel in

i am inclined to start this thread in response to some comments made in other threads.

i have been coming around these forum for quite some time now so whatever you find in here is not just related to something someone may have said this week.

it can go months back as well.. i have seen many who claim to respect the belief of others but when it comes down to applying it into practice, things take a whole different tune.

Viviane

That's true. I just hope the people that called me an asshole (and other names), quoted me out of context, dismissed me because of gender, suggested I am mentally unbalanced and lied about me yet consider themselves "nice", will remember that should they ever decide to take aim at someone less capable than I of dismissing their slings and arrows. (+10 Slytherin for the Shakespeare reference :D (also something something Timelord Victorious, so +20 total for adding in Doctor Who))

As I said, I shall be nicer.

372

On respect for the belief of others. Sorry for the long post

by StarTrekAngel in

i am inclined to start this thread in response to some comments made in other threads.

i have been coming around these forum for quite some time now so whatever you find in here is not just related to something someone may have said this week.

it can go months back as well.. i have seen many who claim to respect the belief of others but when it comes down to applying it into practice, things take a whole different tune.

Viviane

I can understand that, Simon, and I can certainly make that effort. Since we're discussing behavior, we have seen on this thread people deciding they get to claim I said things when I did no such thing. We see people suggesting I have mental problems. We see people calling me names. We see people using misogyny to dismiss me.

I don't recall ever complaining to you or threatening to quit the forum or sending people ultimatums in PM.

Sure, I can use more sugary words when I call people out for their behavior, but let's (as a group, not directed at you personally, Simon), be honest. I am subjected to far worse behavior (see Eden's quit thread and what people said about me there which, you'll notice, I've read and ignored except to use as an example here) by people claiming to be be nice and respectful and loving but who will in a second be nasty and mean in a heartbeat as long as they're ganging up on the right person.

And you know what? That's fine by me. I'm not complaining. I'm not coming to you with names. I'm not firing off PMs angry about it or denigrating them in forums.

I wonder what we can glean from that.