Viviane

Joined

• started 16 topics
• posted 4,484 times   see topics posted on
• send a message

Posts by Viviane

• 
  20

  10 reasons you should never have a religion

  by darth frosty in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  10 reasons you should never have a religion.

  by steven bancarzjanuary 4, 2015self discovery, spirituality.

  written by steve pavlina on his site www.stevepavlina.com |.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  Viviane

  So... the advice is to reject specific unscientific woo and belief in invisible sky people and subscribe instead to open-ended unscientific woo and belief in sky people?

  Not sure at all why that's a better option. 
• 
  303

  The best reasonable, rational, intelligent discussion on religion I've ever seen

  by TerryWalstrom in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hl6e4emx-4k

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  Viviane

  this is a further example of what I said above. And I mean this as friendly as possible, but you've all done far moreinterpreting in this thread than I have because it is continuing to happen with my words which, 'seem' to  indicate to you what you want them to so you can lambast me. But I never said it. I never said or even thought abou claiming Christians of any enoki action are fake, or that I am the authority on how they should think and feel. Regarding the latter, I've emphasized the opposite at least three times. 

  OK. So, actually think about what you have claimed. 

  1) You reject religion BUT believe in a holy book, Jesus as the Messiah, heaven, God, punishment for getting it wrong, and have decided who has it wrong and right, etc. That's the very definition of Christian, that's how they have behaved from the very beginning. That's how Muslims act and have from the beginning. Hindu's, etc. In what sense are you NOT Christian and NOT religious?

  2) If you are comparing books and looking at scripture to determine what parts are right, which are wrong and then determining which Christians have it right, you are interpreting. Full stop, end of story. That is exactly what you are doing BUT exactly what you are claiming NOT to do. 

  3) Real vs Fake. You claim other Christians have it wrong. OK. If someone doesn't understand the rules of the road, can they claim to be a driver? If they don't understand how to start a car can they claim to be driving? Loving cars doesn't make that person a driver. Similarly, you are claiming they have it wrong but surely aren't calling them fake because you think they are sincere in their beliefs. Since when does sincerity of belief have anything to do with it? I can believe all day that I live on top of a giant gold mine. That in no way makes the gold mine real. 

  4) Authority. You claim none yet still think you can decide which beliefs are correct and which aren't. If you've no authority, then no, you can't make any claims about that which is right and wrong. If you do, you are claiming some measure of authority to do so.

  I'm not trying to beat you up, but you seem to want to do all of these things, make all of these claims but then deny that you are actually doing any of this. 
• 
  303

  The best reasonable, rational, intelligent discussion on religion I've ever seen

  by TerryWalstrom in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hl6e4emx-4k

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  Viviane

  Show me where I said other Christians are fake Christians? I said they don't listen to their own book, not that they were insincere. 

  Well, you're one, for instance. You are denying that you have a religion yet are very much a Christian when you get down to it and are telling other Christians have it wrong. If they claim to be Christian but have it wrong, they are fake. I never made ANY claim about their sincerity or claimed that you did. You are trying to claim that 1) you aren't religious, you just believe in Jesus, the resurrection, heaven and punishment 2) other Christians have it wrong and don't even understand their own book but are totally legit and not fake at all 3) that somehow YOUR distinctions are different that when other Christians do it. 

  Hypocrite.

  As is typical of most Christians, you have a problem with reality. 

  Youre still ill putting words in my mouth. I can't even begin to explain how much I dislike you. Please stop slandering me and concocting your nonsense.

  So... 1)I really wish more people (like you) knew what slander means and 2) I really don't care what you opinion of me is.
• 
  303

  The best reasonable, rational, intelligent discussion on religion I've ever seen

  by TerryWalstrom in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hl6e4emx-4k

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  Viviane

  Wrong. Every other christian would tell you to enjoy hell and say hi to a relative they hate.

  Wrong again. Not all Christians would say that. You are just like every other preaching Christian. 

  just because I will not allow a statement to go uncorrected doesn't mean I care whether or not the person accepts the reality of what the book says

  The Koran and Bible preach hate and death. You disagreeing because you think you are different doesn't change that plain and obvious fact. 

  I have not pressed my views on anyone and in fact took steps to avoid it.

  To the contrary, you've not only pressed your views, you've argued for how they are different and, when presented with evidence showing your bias, wrong views and dishonesty when representing others views, complained about it. 

  With all due respect to all of you, if you don't want to hear an opposing view, then keep yours to yourself. Not everyone will agree with you, and you just have to deal with it.

  Look in the mirror and repeat that to yourself.

  But viv, you do in fact back pedal and reverse yiur stand and say people said things they didn't and that you didn't when you did and it's exhausting and aggravating. So let's you and I just stay away from each other once it is clear we cannot agree- and here we will not. 

  Interesting fiction. You've yet to show a single example of that, so fiction it shall remain.  You are free to avoid any challenge to your belief if you wish. I, however, have no such need to shrink away from reality. You're agreement is wholly indifferent to reality existing.

   I do not appreciate being slandered as interpreting scriptures my own way as I do not do this - I take them as they are and put a lot of effort into placing them in their proper context to understand their cultural references and the events that surrounded them. I do not just say they mean whatever I want, because if I did that I'd still be a JW and I am not. 

  That's exactly what every other Christian does. Basically you are saying "Those fake Christians try to tell you what the Bible says and they are wrong! Now, let me tell you what the Bible says." 

  You are the exact same as every other Christian, you just can't admit it.
• 
  303

  The best reasonable, rational, intelligent discussion on religion I've ever seen

  by TerryWalstrom in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hl6e4emx-4k

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  Viviane

  Wrong. im not doing this with you again. Your putting words in my mouth, I positioned the verses TO SPEAK FOR THEMSELVES.

  According to you, those verses speak for themselves (and happen to agree with you). I put no words in your mouth. You claim they speak for themselves and then tell us what they mean. You are the same an every other preaching christian.
  
• 
  303

  The best reasonable, rational, intelligent discussion on religion I've ever seen

  by TerryWalstrom in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hl6e4emx-4k

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  Viviane

  I wasn't going to respond to this thread anymore, but I will respond to this. I have not promoted any view of Jesus except specifically, word for word, what the bible and Quran say about him

  That is EXACTLY my point. You've not promoted Jesus except when you have and what you feel the Bible and other scripture says about him according to you. Welcome to being exactly like every other Christian in the world.
• 
  303

  The best reasonable, rational, intelligent discussion on religion I've ever seen

  by TerryWalstrom in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hl6e4emx-4k

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  Viviane

  I'm not sure how Ive preached to anyone

  You are promoting your version of Jesus. Every Christian does that. You are picking the parts you like and ignoring the rest and telling us they've got it all wrong while telling us your version is right. That's pretty much exactly what Christianity is...

  every muslim scholar agrees that the koran denies that Jesus was crucified

  How many is every?
• 
  303

  The best reasonable, rational, intelligent discussion on religion I've ever seen

  by TerryWalstrom in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hl6e4emx-4k

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  Viviane

  I would argue for example, that persons such as yourself have very valid personal reasons for hating religion and for deciding to have nothing to do with it or its sources. However this does not make you unrighteous, and it is not condemning you especially because what you've done, really, is deny the false christs - which is actually what it directs us to do. Any spite you feel toward the bible is not without reason, and is because of those people. 

  Would you mind NOT telling other people what they think and why? They (we) are perfectly capable of explaining it ourselves. 
• 
  303

  The best reasonable, rational, intelligent discussion on religion I've ever seen

  by TerryWalstrom in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hl6e4emx-4k

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  Viviane

  I will say I believe Jesus was the messiah, that he willingly took this role, and that he died and was raised to heaven.
   I also believe that something bad will likely happen to those who have assumed the role of a messenger or Christ, as per Jesus stating it would.
  And that all religions following a man today are false.
  In the end, what I believe, is that people like you and I and others here who have renounced our religions because of their clear hypocrisies and lies will be saved, as well as all those who are in the religions honestly trying to find truth, as well as all those whomever else the  judge finds is a good and righteous person, regardless of any errors they may have made. 

  So, you say you have renounced religion but believe in Jesus as the Messiah, punishment from heaven, Jesus being raised up, etc. In what sense are you not Christian and operating with confirmation bias? You are starting from the position of "I believe this, let me find things to prove it" rather than the position of "Is there any evidence that would make me believe this?"
• 
  303

  The best reasonable, rational, intelligent discussion on religion I've ever seen

  by TerryWalstrom in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hl6e4emx-4k

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  Viviane

  So, what, specifically, do you believe about the Bible? That it contains truth? Some truth, all truth? That's it's a collection of interesting stories? What specific truth did Mohammed teach about the Bible? Do you believe Adam literally existed and that angels literally exist and bowed to him?