Posts by galaxie

27

What's more to blame- the WT or the bible?

by keyser soze in

jw
friends

aren't they both just differen't variations of the same lie?

the only difference is the scale on which their impact on humanity is measured.

that, and the fact that the bible can exist without the wt, but not vice versa.. but at the end of the day, what's the difference between claiming to be the inspired word of god, or the one true religion?

galaxie

Heaven;... I agree entirely,

My point being the blame is exspansive , not solely a WT question.

Best wishes.

23

Troll Accusations

by Frazzled UBM in

i have noticed that some of us are a bit too eager to label new posters as trolls.

while it is clear that there are some posters who just like to stir up trouble or are out and out apologists there are others who are witnesses starting to have genuine doubts and so ask questions but then when they see the responses the cognitive dissonance kicks in and they push back and argue with what they are being told.

this can lead to very negative reactions from jwn members and accusations that the person is a troll.

galaxie

Shows the vital importance of face to face social interaction, it can mean the world of difference even to see some ones facial expression voice inflections etc.

Some forum interactions would probably come to a better and probably friendlier conclusion if conducted face to face.

Best wishes.

27

What's more to blame- the WT or the bible?

by keyser soze in

jw
friends

aren't they both just differen't variations of the same lie?

the only difference is the scale on which their impact on humanity is measured.

that, and the fact that the bible can exist without the wt, but not vice versa.. but at the end of the day, what's the difference between claiming to be the inspired word of god, or the one true religion?

galaxie

The bible is a compilation , do we attribute blame to specific contributers? Then the topic expands to , 'blame for what '. All adherents to scriptural interpretation are to blame if they have the power and will to influence the gullible if they choose not to utilise their own grey matter.

You could of course argue that many find good and comfort in the bible, would we say that certain writers are responsible for that aspect? Or is it that they are unable to find inner peace , happiness of their own volition.

So it begs the furtherance of the O.P blame for what?

Best wishes.

15

some changes need to be made

by venting in

jw
friends

but im still in and on the fence.

" remember who owns the fence?".

shunning needs to be tempered.

galaxie

Hi venting...You can cure your headache with the analgesic of quitting the JWs.

Best wishes

609

What is spirit, exactly?

by Viviane in

i've always wondered that.

recently i asked that question on another thread and didn't really get ananswer.

cofty made an excellent point that we often hear what it isn't, but that really isn't useful.. so, what is it?

galaxie

Jgnat,.. you seem definite in your conclusion, but polls are merely opinions in the the main and of course some do not have the outcome of their conclusions.

I would argue that the influence to believe spirit was a supernatural force /influence on our lives comes from a more powerful/influential minority the minions following suit out of fear.

Best wishes

609

What is spirit, exactly?

by Viviane in

i've always wondered that.

recently i asked that question on another thread and didn't really get ananswer.

cofty made an excellent point that we often hear what it isn't, but that really isn't useful.. so, what is it?

galaxie

Viv ...by mentioning those names you are still assuming that what they say is credible, it may well be but the ancient world and understanding of forces which have a bearing on our existence are far more than the sum of those you mention , I presume that you will agree?

The fact that spirit was identified as no more than the air we breathe is very plausible given human reasoning and understanding and the complexities of same, as is the fact that some saw it as a supernatural force, hence the very foundation of why we discuss it today and certainly a causal factor for your question.

In the context of spirit as merely the air we breathe who could argue with certainty that ancient peole saw it as just that.

The main reasoning and acceptance of spirit as something other than a physical force comes to us courtesy of the bible and such like.

The proportionality of those writers as opposed to wordwide population is miniscule.

What comes down to us in the evolution of language and ultimately the vocabulary we use is not down to those writers of mystical stories, but rather normal generational handing down.

I therefore see no confusion the ancient understanding of spirit being no more than the air we breathe as a physical force based on the evidence of effects of such is entirely possible,

The fact that it came to be seen as something other than that ie magic or supernatural was most probably down to a tiny minority in relation to world population, the effects of which have persisted to this day ie the minority speaking for and influencing the many.

609

What is spirit, exactly?

by Viviane in

i've always wondered that.

recently i asked that question on another thread and didn't really get ananswer.

cofty made an excellent point that we often hear what it isn't, but that really isn't useful.. so, what is it?

galaxie

Viv... You are making an assumption that they thought it was magical.

They had the intelligence to know it was a physical force be it gentle or highly agitated, they knew it entered the body physically through the nostrils or mouth they knew it madethe chest rise and fall, they knew without it there was no more life they . They also knew its force could bring down trees.

Don't you think they would see it as a physical force. We insult their intelligence not to think so.

If some saw it as supernatural then they were just as deluded as some people today.

609

What is spirit, exactly?

by Viviane in

i've always wondered that.

recently i asked that question on another thread and didn't really get ananswer.

cofty made an excellent point that we often hear what it isn't, but that really isn't useful.. so, what is it?

galaxie

Viv.., as you say the ancients had many things they would refer to as spirit, I am talking specifically about one aspect of what they identified as spirit they obviously were ignorant of the scientific make up of the air we breathe , any other ancient idea of what they thought spirit was is just speculation or interpreted by some eg bible writers as supernatural.

Likewise ancient people , although having in their appropriate language a word for water they did not know it as hydrogen and oxygen, therefore you cannot conclude that H2o is a metaphor for water. They are the same thing.

Best wishes

609

What is spirit, exactly?

by Viviane in

i've always wondered that.

recently i asked that question on another thread and didn't really get ananswer.

cofty made an excellent point that we often hear what it isn't, but that really isn't useful.. so, what is it?

galaxie

Viv;...All made possible by the air we breathe, is a statement, it is NOT trying to identify the type of spirit as in gods, demons etc, but rather identfies the ancient concept of the physical air which without we would not be able to communicate as we are now doing, with great spirit I might add.

Nothing mystical about it and certainly not a metaphor.spirit and air we breathe in the context as I have described are the SAME thing, we just don't use it in modern times in our conversation, as in times past when the air we breathe was also known as spirit being the physical force which was seen(rightly) to sustain our life.

Am I right in believing the spirit you are trying to identify is of the supernatural kind? As I have said previously I don't believe there is such a thing.

Best wishes.

144

Escaping Indoctrination - Faith Isn't a Virtue.

by cofty in

the unknown writer of the gospel of john put the following words in jesus' mouth, "blessed are those who have not seen and yet have believed.".

persuading countless generations that it is a virtue to believe incredible things on insufficient evidence, is one of religion's cleverest tricks.. the more incredible the claim; the more flimsy the evidence; the stronger the belief; the greater the virtue.. this is the exact opposite of how we operate in every other aspect of our lives.. rational people must demand objective evidence for everything they are asked to believe.

"extraordinary claims demand extraordinary evidence".. leaving the dogmatic claims of the watchtower is only a first step.

galaxie

Two types of faith in my book;.. founded faith and unfounded faith eg, I have faith my son will return safe from the oil rig he works on.thus;.. because there are many many safety checks and procedures from the outset on every part of his job my faith in these is founded because they can be tested and improved and ultimately exist for his safety.

If something occured which caused him harm then the expression, 'my faith was shattered ' comes into play.

Unfounded faith on the other hand is faith with no backup evidence ie, god, angels devils, demons, heaven, hell, paradise, living forever supernatural influence etc etc.

Which type as a rational thinking educated human being do you think fits the bill?

Best wishes to all