Posts by StarTrekAngel

15

Its really weird

by SpunkedTeen in

jw
friends

i tried testing my family by mentioning that a member of the gb was summoned to appear in front of the royal commission and i found it really weird how they reacted.they dismissed it saying its just satan attacking the 'truth' and i could not believe how ignorant they are.they all think that the organization did nothing wrong or even that jw's abuse their children.

StarTrekAngel

Don't hold it against them. They are being controlled and conditioned.

15

Angel of the True God

by StarTrekAngel in

i usually open posts such as this one with disclaimer for the atheists/agnostics out there.

i respect your position and what i tried to do in posts like this one is discuss the bible, wether you believe the stories or not.. i believe it is well known that in jw doctrine it is thought that no one has ever seen god.

this teaching is also supplemented by the accounts of moises, where jehovah told him that no one can see him and yet live to tell the tale.. i, however, was always puzzled by some of the grammar in the bible where it seems to imply that god appeared to people.

StarTrekAngel

LOL Exactly my point Island Man. This is why I warn atheist when I open thread like these. The discussion can get pretty crazy.

Never the less, the point of the discussion is not wether the stories of the bible are true or not but rather how would you catch a JW on their own teachings. Comparing not the contradictions of the bible with itself, but the contradictions of the bible against their own doctrine.

Thanks all for your thoughts

15

Angel of the True God

by StarTrekAngel in

i usually open posts such as this one with disclaimer for the atheists/agnostics out there.

i respect your position and what i tried to do in posts like this one is discuss the bible, wether you believe the stories or not.. i believe it is well known that in jw doctrine it is thought that no one has ever seen god.

this teaching is also supplemented by the accounts of moises, where jehovah told him that no one can see him and yet live to tell the tale.. i, however, was always puzzled by some of the grammar in the bible where it seems to imply that god appeared to people.

StarTrekAngel

I usually open posts such as this one with disclaimer for the atheists/agnostics out there. I respect your position and what I tried to do in posts like this one is discuss the bible, wether you believe the stories or not.

I believe it is well known that in JW doctrine it is thought that no one has ever seen God. This teaching is also supplemented by the accounts of Moises, where Jehovah told him that no one can see him and yet live to tell the tale.

I, however, was always puzzled by some of the grammar in the bible where it seems to imply that God appeared to people. Most notable are the account of Genesis (Abraham) where God seems to appear to Abraham in more than one occasion. I also noticed that the term "Angel of Jehovah" or "Angel of the True God" is somewhat used interchangeably in the bible. Upon looking it up, it seems that there is a consensus that the word "Angel" is usually interpreted as messenger. Is worth noticing that some reads imply that the word "Angel" could be applied to a human messenger but also to a supernatural one. Some sources even affirm that the term "Angel of Yahwe" can also applied to God himself. Off course, the WT would probably dismiss any references to such idea as they insist God has never come down to earth and has never been seen by anyone.

I recently stumbled upon the accounts of Judges chapter 6. By the way, this is a great chapter to use in showing a JW that faith is not blind and that demanding a sign is not frowned upon by God. Back in the subject matter, Judges 6:20, in summary, accounts on how Jehovah (or the Angel of, as both terms are used in the narrative) performs a sign to show Gideon that he was the true God. Upon realizing it was for real, Gideon exclaims (towards the end of par 22) "Alas, Sovereign Lord Jehovah, for the reason that I have seen Jehovah's angel face to face"23 But Jehovah said to him:" Peace by yours. Do not fear, You will not die"

I can't help to conciliate all of the above. In one hand, the writer (supposedly inspired) seems to alternatively refer to the being as "Jehovah" or "the angel of Jehovah" which leads to understand that God himself was down on earth talking to Gideon. Such would make sense, if we keep in mind the words of Moises, as having realized that God had come down, Gideon was scared of the fact that he saw him. But why then, did he not die and was told affirmatively so? Could it be that one can not see the spiritual manifestation of God and live but that God would take the form of an angel in order to present himself to humans?I mean, sort of like if an angel was more of a vessel for spiritual beings to come down to the material world and God has a ride of his own?

I think I recall another paragraph of the bible of a similar situation on which a prophet got scared upon realizing he was face to face with God. I just can't recall where it was.

Anyone ever done any research on the matter?

17

'Jehovah is using the Royal commission'??.. Ok, let's work with that.

by defender of truth in

what do you think of the following line of reasoning for helping a jw start to think about what they are admitting.. (essentially, the organisations way of handling child abuse has been wrong, harm has been caused, god is now putting it right.).

reply:.

"i appreciate your honesty, in admitting that child abuse has not been handled in the right way in the past.

StarTrekAngel

Sorry, doesn't the WT teaches that the bible predicted the destruction of Jerusalem by the Babylonians (as a consequence of their wicked ways)? Wouldn't this be a parallel?

Off course, If such admission ever happens, I can a WT article in the future showing why the new understanding of the FDS comes as a blessings. You see, the previous FDS was wicked and was protecting pedos. The new FDS was cleanse by the world governments as soon as it was recognized by Jehovahs people.

In another note, when I read the above statement, it definitely does not sounds like something the org would write.

What gives?

42

Western Decline is a Reality - 2015 Memorial Attendance

by berrygerry in

as has been observed in western congos, the decline is real.. usa is 12.475 % less -2015 vs 2014.

StarTrekAngel

I remember the days when the KM magazine had little section talking about the overall growth and new max of pioneers for the year, etc. Now they are limited to put things like "we've seen an increase in returning visits of 1.2% over the same month last year. This shows there still lots of work to do in the harvest!!".

I hate this disgusting cult!

42

Western Decline is a Reality - 2015 Memorial Attendance

by berrygerry in

as has been observed in western congos, the decline is real.. usa is 12.475 % less -2015 vs 2014.

StarTrekAngel

The memorial attendance for our area declined significantly last year. Our dear elders felt the urge to point out, even though most people probably did not notice or care. He said it was because we changed venues from a dance hall to the KH and people did not read the invitation.

LMAO!

25

This too Shall Pass (RC Commission vs WTS)

by undercover in

jw
friends

while i'm glad that the practices of the wts are under review and the australian commission is taking them to task, i'm not really expecting huge changes in the long run.

oh, they may have to agree to some changes in how they report crimes brought to elders' attention, but this excitement over the supposed expose of wt practices shall pass, and jws will soon be canvassing neighborhoods and rolling their carts, looking for converts.

conventions will go on.

StarTrekAngel

True. It will pass, but with every similar occurrence, the reputation of the group will be ever more damager to the point of difficult recovery. Truth as you said it, is like a cancer in remission. It may never go away, but it will remain small enough to cause no trouble.

If it helps us wake up loved ones, is a welcome blessing.

5

I think he would make a good 'James Bond'. A thinking man's spy.

by Esse quam videri in

StarTrekAngel

I am really starting to like this guy. Would he ever know he has a fan base in the ExJW community.

14

We are on the stage for all mankind, why not urge all JW to witness it?

by James Mixon in

i would be proud to be on the stage to give a good witness to the world.. instead there is zip about the procedures in australia for the rf, they are clueless.. you would think the gb would be so proud for it's members to watch how they.

defend the truth.

correct me if i'am wrong but is there any thing on jw.org to indicate.

StarTrekAngel

Good point James. Mr Jackson's opening statement should be "Have you come out with swords and clubs to arrest Me as you would against a robber? Every day I used to sit in the temple teaching and you did not seize Me. But all this has taken place to fulfill the Scriptures of the prophets."

Unless, off course, he doesn't have the truth and therefore he should be scared out of his pants

33

Ever wondered

by NoIdeaWhatToBelieve in

i was very hooked on the rc videos, really interesting to watch.

i started questioning stuff a couple of months ago.. however there is still a scenario that makes me wonder.

considering the israelites as god's chosen people and the kings as anointed, the bible shows many bad decisions the people made, including the rulers that were anointed.

StarTrekAngel

I once questioned the same things, as far as the possibility that Jehovah is ok with the org making mistakes, as he seemed to be ok with it in the past. That was until I decided to read the bible. Is so plain and simply put that it is impossible to ignore. You can only not see it if, commanded by the org, you refuse to "engage in independent study of the scriptures". Reading the bible on our own can lead to apostasy, says the WT. That alone should wake most people up but when you realize it doesn't, then you must questions what we are really following.

As far as the comments other have posted. Well they are totally right. I myself still believe in God. I am not a dogmatic person anymore, but I do believe. I respect those who don't and I am convinced that God does too. You see, we were once JWs, but we did not really understand the concept of "bearing witness". As JWs we are thought time and time again to put faith on someone's apparent appointment as the FDS but such individual can not "bear witness" of their appointment. In other words, they can not perform any kinds of supernatural act that will convince us that they indeed have God's approval. As JWs we fail to study, and therefore fail to understand, that such concept is plastered all over the bible. Yet, we will probably gravitate towards the "blessed are those who believe without seeing" very easily. Everything in context, you will realize that there is no faith without manifestation. In other words, there is no faith without the witness of works by the holy spirit. Yes, faith is an expectation for the future, but is based on the experiences of the past. Its sort of like your credit score.

So to sort of explain how I answered the same question to myself. I would be willing to accept the mistakes and imperfections of the org so long that they can proof that God has really appointed them. If God has forgiven them and continued to cast his blessings over the org, then it should be fairly evident. If such happened, then I would understand that whatever mistake was made, it was an honest one and they should be forgiven for it just like we are forgiven every day. As many pointed out here, there is overwhelming evidence to the contrary. Simply compare the story of David. Just because David did a handful of sins, they do not overshadow the other good things he did. I am not justifying his actions, I am just comparing it to the modern idea of the "kingdom". If his were honest mistakes, then God will decide what to do with it. I am no judge on that and if David was alive today, I would not disagree with him paying for what he did under secular law. In the same context, Jesus spoke very clearly on how hypocrisy was more important to him than sins themselves. And this should be very easy to see, as the golden rule would apply to this. As JWs we tend to interpret the golden rule as something that only applies to good deeds. While it is true, it is also true that is a good ruler to measure wrong doing as well. Jesus never dismissed some of the things the Jews commanded as being wrong but he rather showed how they should not impose if they were not willing to do that themselves. Sure some of the rules were unjustifiable, like not healing on the Sabbath but in other cases he showed that the rule itself wasn't unreasonable, so long it was applied in the right context and so long the ruler was willing to apply the rule to himself.

If the prophet Nathan came today to speak to the GB and pointed out their flaws as he did to David, he will be Dfed on the spot.

Hope I make sense. If not, I can explain myself further