Posts by StarTrekAngel

212

Why Do You No Longer Believe in God?

by Tenacious in

i know this question has popped up from time to time but i really would like to know how you guys, those that no longer believe, came to that conclusion?

was it the wts and all its crap?

was it something you read?

StarTrekAngel

Sure Viviane. That is exactly what I am talking about. Your standards needs to be everyone else's standards. Unless of course you need to bash someone. Then the standards are out the window.

I spoke in general terms, but if the shoe fits...

212

Why Do You No Longer Believe in God?

by Tenacious in

i know this question has popped up from time to time but i really would like to know how you guys, those that no longer believe, came to that conclusion?

was it the wts and all its crap?

was it something you read?

I am all for caring about the truth. May be some people don't. As long as they don't try to push their truth on me, I am fine with them living on what others would consider a fairy tale. You see I am not even speaking on my behalf. I am speaking on behalf of others here that I care about. I may totally agree with your statements cofty and I have read some great stuff from you. What I am saying is that there needs to be respect for the belief of others.

In a hypothetical situation, If they engage you in a discussion and you engage them back, then I don't see why would you be exempt from providing their own proof. Just like they had a choice of engaging you, you also had a choice. If you take it, and they demand your proof, then I believe you own it to your ideals to provide it. If you believe the discussion is totally idiotic and there is no point on arguing, then go and live your life to the fullest. How would that affect your cause for truth?

At the end, I would base it on the fact that the only thing that is ever achieved in this situations is to disrupt the intents of the person who started the thread. There is a handful of people here that tend to do that. The fact that they are the minority, and the fact that they seem attracted to this kind of discussion, shows, in my humble opinion, that they can not accept that there are people out there that should be entitled to believe in fairy tales if they choose to. Is not me, not anymore. No more fairy tales for me. But lets also not forget we ALL were once there.

I agree, someone who lives in a fairy tale can impact others if they manage to attract followers. That is where the "convincing" part comes in. But this truth also applies to those at the other end of the spectrum. I don't care how empirical evidence you can gather. Even when you have a solid foundation for your claim, it doesn't entitle you to convince others either. I am not saying that is what you are doing cofty, but in such cases, the respectful thing to do is to drop your evidence and let others draw their conclusions.

Amateurish psychology? Profanity is what I find amateurish. But that is just my personal opinion and that is why I say it in first person. No one needs to agree with me on that and I don't plan to convince anyone of it.

212

Why Do You No Longer Believe in God?

by Tenacious in

i know this question has popped up from time to time but i really would like to know how you guys, those that no longer believe, came to that conclusion?

was it the wts and all its crap?

was it something you read?

StarTrekAngel

Agreed. If you are trying to convince someone else, you better have tangible evidence. I am talking about personal belief.

A personal belief does not necessarily requires evidence or at least the evidence does not need to be of a science nature. People believe in karma and the only evidence they have are the few times were karma apparently got them even with some one else, despite not being any tangible evidence that karma exists and is not reproducible on demand.

There are people here who say they respect the belief of others. Posting something about your personal belief does not automatically means you are trying to convince others. Yet, they go in there and begin to demand proof of claim. In essence, they end up doing the exact thing they claim to hate about believers. If you think a certain topic is stupid or has no evidence or foundation, simply stay out of it.

True, you are free to express your opinion. Expressing your opinion would be stating something like "I don't believe in karma because there is no evidence of it", another very different is to state "I don't believe in karma and you are an idiot for believing in fantasies and fiction". You are also entitled to think that those that believe are idiots, but if that is what you want to express, start a new thread about the stupidity of unfounded belief. Let the others continue with their lives.

Insisting on the contrary only shows an outwardly expression of your misery. I can understand where it comes from. You don't exit cults without scars, wether you like to admit it or not. But stumping on others just because of what they believe, is not going to gain you anything. Is just going to consume you for no reason whatsoever. That is off course, provided that their belief is not actually damaging you personally.

6

Take this to anyone who says "we need two witnesses for child abuse"

by StarTrekAngel in

so another week goes by with another brain mushing meeting.

i had not been to a meeting in two weeks.

first i was out in vegas for a business trip.

StarTrekAngel

LOL. No, I don't think it matters to the GB but certainly it can be used with those who continue to claim the bible is the ultimate authority.

212

Why Do You No Longer Believe in God?

by Tenacious in

i know this question has popped up from time to time but i really would like to know how you guys, those that no longer believe, came to that conclusion?

was it the wts and all its crap?

was it something you read?

StarTrekAngel

Let me rephrase since it seems like may be my question was not understood.

Does belief require evidence in your opinion? Wether you belief in God or Karma, does believing requires one to have tangible evidence for the existence of the thing you believe in?

212

Why Do You No Longer Believe in God?

by Tenacious in

i know this question has popped up from time to time but i really would like to know how you guys, those that no longer believe, came to that conclusion?

was it the wts and all its crap?

was it something you read?

StarTrekAngel

So Viviane, I understand you are saying that you are explaining why you don't BELIEVE in God without necessarily saying that someone can one day offer you proof the existence of God?

If I misunderstood your statement, please be so kind and clarify.

Thanks

6

Take this to anyone who says "we need two witnesses for child abuse"

by StarTrekAngel in

so another week goes by with another brain mushing meeting.

i had not been to a meeting in two weeks.

first i was out in vegas for a business trip.

StarTrekAngel

So another week goes by with another brain mushing meeting. I had not been to a meeting in two weeks. First I was out in Vegas for a business trip. The week after that, wife and I choose to stay home and have a talk with one of our kids who is having bully issues at school (not WT related, thankfully).

I continue using the meeting to read the bible and get more and more informed on the things JWs conveniently ignore. This may not be new to many here, but in the couple of years that I have been hanging out in this forum, I never read about it. I know some mentioned that the bible never says that two witnesses are required for everything and that the legal courts should avoided, but I have never seen biblical proof until now.

While most passages that speak of the need for witnesses seem to claim witnesses are required on every matter, Deut 17 makes it clear that some legal matters are too complex to be dealt with by the parties alone relying on witnesses.

Deut 17:2 begins by exemplifying a case in which someone is caught worshipping an idol. The first part of the passage goes into detail about the false worshipping, citing adoration of celestial bodies. Immediately it moves down to the action. The people of the town where this happened were supposed to take the man outside the city and stone him or her to death. Before the end, it clarifies that such matter should be established by the means of two or three witnesses. If only one witness was to raise against the man or woman, then no guilt was considered.

However, as you move down to Deut 17:8, things take a different tone. It now goes over a judicial case that is too extraordinary for you to judge. It gives a few examples which include murder, lawsuits and assault. In this case, the bible commands to go to either the priest or the judge. I believe that reading the paragraph carefully, one can see it makes a clear differentiation between the two. It also makes it clear the you should obey whatever decision the judge makes and warns against not following the judicial decision.

Read it for yourself and tell me what you understand. In my case, I clearly understand that the bible here makes a clear differentiation between matters that can resolved between the parties involved with the assistance of witnesses and matters who need a lawful outcome, including the intervention of a judge with experience on legal matters.

137

Something interesting!

by John Aquila in

i was invited to a small get-together by a long time friend.

we both served as elders for years.

he is in his late 70s.

StarTrekAngel

Please find out where they meet in Texas. I am curious as to who I may find there.

Please do keep us posted.

30

Pledge for Global Assistance Arrangement - $15 per publisher!

by nmthinker in

last night our congregation read a letter for the global assistance arrangement combined with the traveling overseer assistance arrangement.

the "recommended" amount was $15 per publisher, which was well over $1000 for our hall.. it seemed steep.

our congregation does not have this type of money.

StarTrekAngel

I was about to start a thread about the same thing. Our hall also passed a resolution last night but in our case they did not say the per publisher amount. They just announced the total of $1300. Off course, everyone was in agreement.

1

This is what happens when someone is given authority without checks and balances

by StarTrekAngel in

https://www.yahoo.com/travel/s/family-of-9-on-vacation-kicked-off-plane-says-150654020.html.

i am sure there are good flight attendants and i have bumped into many but rather the captain, who is truly in charge, should use his best judgement and not just go with whatever the attendant wants.

i think the decisions of just throwing people out of planes comes from not having the courage to apologize and confront someone after a bad situation.

StarTrekAngel

https://www.yahoo.com/travel/s/family-of-9-on-vacation-kicked-off-plane-says-150654020.html

I am sure there are good flight attendants and I have bumped into many but rather the captain, who is truly in charge, should use his best judgement and not just go with whatever the attendant wants. I think the decisions of just throwing people out of planes comes from not having the courage to apologize and confront someone after a bad situation. It is rather more comfortable for the flight attendant to have the person removed and not have to look at that person in the eye and with a smile for the duration of the flight.

I only have one personal experience (that affected me that is) but have seen many others from a few rows behind. In a flight to Houston on a very well known airline, a couple with two kids boarded the flight. Upon hearing the announcement that the cabin door was now closed, the couple pulled out a booster seat and put it in an empty seat next to them to seat their baby. Flight attendant comes over (rather an old man) and asked them if they had payed for that seat or was he a lap baby. The father responded that it was a lap baby but that he understood that airline policy allowed for using empty seats for lap babies. (I can confirm this is true as I have done this many times). The flight attendant asked the father to remove the booster seat and put the baby in his laps. Father said that since the seat was empty and the door closed, the he could assume no other paying passenger would ask for that seat. Flight attendant proceed to raise his voice and say that he would no longer argue and that he would throw them out of the plane if they did not comply. He ended up putting the baby in his laps and holding him the whole way. Seat was empty as it is obviously concluded. This flight attendant rather allowed a potential liability (in case of heavy turbulence for example) than letting the baby fly securely fasten to the seat.