Posts by StarTrekAngel

9

"Casting Lots", How Was It Considered Acceptable?

by JW_Rogue in

the jws strongly condemn any form of gambling or decision making that invokes luck or divination.

however, no where in the bible is the "casting of lots" which basically amounted to gambling specifically condemned.

also, many jws don't realize that jewish priests (levites) were instructed to make decisions using the urim and thummin which many scholars argue was a divination practice similar to casting lots..

StarTrekAngel

Vidiot. I could not agree more. That has always been my feeling regarding celebrations as well. Most of the celebrations that are frowned upon are those that happen consistently year after year. Hence the yearly expense of celebrating them. Things like graduations and marriage are ok since they only happen once or twice in a lifetime. Even if they include rituals of pagan origin.

As far as casting lots, that is another point of contention of mine. It is hard, in my view, to necessarily compare it to gambling. Any well studied witness would easily refute that argument. The lots in questions, for example, during the selection of a replacement for Judas, were cast under prayer. In the context of the bible, the result was not random. It was God's hand at work. This was one of the first things I questioned once I woke up. In our area, lots of people seem to believe in bibliomancy. The idea that if you have a question or concern, you can pray to God and then open the bible at random with the certainty that God would direct you to the answer you seek. We used to go around in FS telling people such thing was not biblical and did not happen. I fail to see the difference between casting lots and opening the bible at random after a prayer.

6

Social gathering on December 25th

by StarTrekAngel in

i remember clearly the many times that in the past they have insisted on not showing their faces out in the street on this day.

i am exaggerating.

but i mean they've always insisted on being out and about very early on christmas day... preaching.. most elders in my congregation believed this was the best time to preach since most people were celebrating a religious holiday.

StarTrekAngel

I remember clearly the many times that in the past they have insisted on not showing their faces out in the street on this day. Well, not really. I am exaggerating. But I mean they've always insisted on being out and about very early on Christmas day... preaching.

Most elders in my congregation believed this was the best time to preach since most people were celebrating a religious holiday. They thought it was the perfect ice breaker. I can not recall one single outing in which an interested party was found. As I used to tell my wife "Its a bad idea to be out in service on December 25th early morning. The only thing we will achieve is piss off drunk people"

However, I do recall the "lectures" on how having a social gathering on December 25th was frowned upon. Most brothers and sisters saw it as an opportunity to get everyone together, since no one had anything better to do and besides, most people did not work that day. The elders and the "society" in the other hand, always pointed out that our neighbors may get the wrong idea. As if we are celebrating Christmas as a group.

Apparently our congo has reconsidered. The elders themselves were out and about inviting us all to a gathering to be had on the 25th right after the meeting. Needless to say we did not go to the gathering or the meeting for that matter.

I can not help to think that they have seen this idea of keeping up appearances has failed. Most neighbors won't even bother to notice that there is a feast next door and most brothers and sisters would spent December 25th with their non-JW relatives otherwise. Then excuse themselves off as "we are just spending time with family. We did not hang the decorations, they did". Social media has probably exposed most of them and so the elders probably figure is better to give them another place to be on that day. Do this for a couple of years and then prepare a talk in which you scold those who prefer worldly company over spiritual company and guilt trip them.

23

Elders School 2017: New instructions to handle sexual abuses?

by sp74bb in

an informant in spanish forum, active elder in a congregation in madrid (spain) has posted new info regarding elders school 2017. important changes are to be done for "child" or sexual abuses.

https://abusostj.vbulletin.net/forum/main-forum/audiencias-judiciales/5506-escuela-de-ancianos-2017.

doing a summary:.

StarTrekAngel

So in other words....more CYA

9

A better way to ask questions - Anybody remember "Amazing"?

by Bonnie_Clyde in

first of all, i wonder whatever happened to jim whitney (aka amazing).

when i first joined this forum, i remember being so impressed by the way he got his family out.

instead of knocking the organization head-on, he would ask questions that can't be answered during his family study, such as, "how would you answer someone if they said we were false prophets?

StarTrekAngel

I think he may had a very particular situation with his family. He had probably earned 120% of their trust over the years. If one of your loved ones is a bit colder when it comes to questioning, they may be faster to judge your intentions than to actually ponder over the question. My wife for example, can not see the potential danger behind attending (if not following, just attending) a church that may have dark secrets or a dark past. However, her first judgement when I lend my careless 12 year old a $1000 camera is that I want her to break it so I can have an excuse to get a new one. Never can she conclude that my girl is better off chasing butterflies with a camera than sitting on the couch watching TV all day.

9

New MacBook Pro fails with lowsy 3 to 4 hour battery life

by jwleaks in

with 2017 fast looming i was looking at upgrading my laptop and was eagerly awaiting the release, and reviews, for the new apple macbook pro series and the promoted longer battery life.. fail ... 3 to 4 hrs for the battery life.

lowsy results also reported by apple discussion members.. new macbook pros fail to earn 'consumer reports' recommendation.

by jerry beilinson.

StarTrekAngel

I've been using Macs since about 2006. Here at work that is all they give us, everything is Apple. In my humble opinion, Apple products began quickly changing for the worst once Steve Jobs died. May be a coincidence but I notice the sacrifices being made in the name of marketing when Steve used to strive for practical functionality. For people who travel a lot weight is key, may be not size but weight. Also, I am sure that in this day an age the airline industry probably appreciates this push for lighter, thinner computers. But after all, those are the numbers that sell a lot. How much futuristic the product looks, not how much more futuristic the product works.

24

Has waking up ever made you physically ill?

by fizzle in

jw
friends

has waking up ever made you physically ill?

perhaps because of the emotional strain etc..?.

if if so what were / are the symptoms?.

StarTrekAngel

To me this clearly demonstrates that we are victims. I get a bit agitated by some people out there who think we got what we deserved. Whether they think we are dumb or that we always had a choice to do the right thing but we choose not to. Your reality is radically changed when you are a JW and so you always feel you are doing the right thing, which now looking back makes you wonder... what was I thinking about?. Steven Hassan very clearly describes it in his book. Cult members did not change. They do not turn good or bad for that matter. Their will is not under control, rather the enviromment under which the will is exercised has changed and therefore they do things that are logical to outsiders but sounds very logical to them.

10

JWs vandalizing homes/property of apostates

by StarTrekAngel in

i have read over the past few years of many cases of elder harassment and unwanted visitations.

however, there is a couple of stories out there where it has been presented that eventually the apostate in question comes home one day to find that their home has been trashed or covered with graffiti, which by the words written, seems to imply that it was a jw taking "revenge" or seemingly delivering divine justice against the apostate.

most of these are stories i've read online from several years ago.. have you individually or the group ever heard or stumbled upon these cases?

StarTrekAngel

I have read over the past few years of many cases of elder harassment and unwanted visitations. However, there is a couple of stories out there where it has been presented that eventually the apostate in question comes home one day to find that their home has been trashed or covered with graffiti, which by the words written, seems to imply that it was a JW taking "revenge" or seemingly delivering divine justice against the apostate. Most of these are stories I've read online from several years ago.

Have you individually or the group ever heard or stumbled upon these cases? If so, have you ever had reason to believe the individual in question, while truthful about their harassment, was trying to increase attention to themselves?

24

Has waking up ever made you physically ill?

by fizzle in

jw
friends

has waking up ever made you physically ill?

perhaps because of the emotional strain etc..?.

if if so what were / are the symptoms?.

StarTrekAngel

For me it was difficult to point to a trigger so for a while it was hard to relate one with the other, which made it scary. I slowly began to realize that anything that was emotional, wether excitement about something good or anxiety about something bad, would eventually lead to the same physical manifestations. I could be laying down in my couch watching a comedy and laughing my butt off. Clear minded and all and then all of a sudden it would come.

24

Has waking up ever made you physically ill?

by fizzle in

jw
friends

has waking up ever made you physically ill?

perhaps because of the emotional strain etc..?.

if if so what were / are the symptoms?.

StarTrekAngel

The most shocking part, which eventually causes the stress that leads to illness, is the coming to realization that the people you love the most are the first ones to doubt you. The more you understand about brainwashing, the more obvious it becomes that they are not themselves and you can hardly hold them accountable. Which leads to a greater feeling of your family being victimized by these assholes. Being able to reason thru all of these breaks the defense mechanism of cognitive dissonance which would protected you from emotional stress.

45

Disassociation - shunning - can we all lobby Government that it is against freedom of religion?

by stockholm_Syndrome in

if jws want to inflict shunning on members who want to remain -- knock yourselves out.

but if someone wants to leave - dont believe in an evil almighty god, bible ...or just dont agree with the rules- they should be free to leave- even after being 'disfellowshipped'.

i think it was pre 1980 that you could disassociate yourself without shunning repercussions.

StarTrekAngel

I agree with galaxie. Shunning in and on itself is something that as Simon and others said, would probably never fly. But you know as well as everyone else here that shunning is only the means to an end and that is how it should be looked at. The fact that most JW would shun you just because the GB says so is not the final goal. The GB are glad JWs shun just on their call alone but the ulterior motive is to force people to stick around. I believe that government could take action on those grounds just like the government would take action if a religion would use their belief as a basis to harm people physically. As long as it could be demonstrated beyond reasonable doubt that the practice of shunning forces people to involuntarily remain members, may be. But it is a bit more difficult to do this when the responsibilities are put on the actual members and there is no actual physical harm. I believe society is slowly becoming more aware of the damage of emotional trauma and manipulation but it is a slow road.