Posts by UpAndAtom

14

Chapter One: JWs believe in Reincarnation

by ezekiel3 in

jws will say they believe in a resurrection of dead humans to earth (the most ancient to be abel, son of adam) after god destroys wicked mankind in armeggedon.

they use the word ?resurrection?

based on:*** rs p. 333 resurrection ***.

UpAndAtom

OldHippe; You raise a very interesting and valid point. I agree with you completely.

It makes little difference who you were, but rather how you treated people.

14

Chapter One: JWs believe in Reincarnation

by ezekiel3 in

jws will say they believe in a resurrection of dead humans to earth (the most ancient to be abel, son of adam) after god destroys wicked mankind in armeggedon.

they use the word ?resurrection?

based on:*** rs p. 333 resurrection ***.

UpAndAtom

In the beginning, God created spirit creatures.

God gave these spirit creatures the ability to choose their own destiny ? our will. Thus our Souls were born (Special note to JWs: A Soul is not a body)

Selfish actions are the first instinct of any species with a will. Some chose to stay next to God (the Angles in Heaven), many choose the broad path and wound up on Earth. How you ask?

In the early days, our spirits had the ability to push-into and out-of animal matter with free will (much like legion inhabited the swine and the fierce men)? however in our haste, we overlooked the fact our spirits could become enmeshed with animal flesh, and hence we slowly, but surely became trapped in the cycle of birth and rebirth of the animal bodies we used to inhabit for selfish fun. There are vague references to this in Genesis.

One of the main problems is that most people have forgotten their true heritage and place in the Universe as co creators with God.

Have you ever considered what you ?really? look like at the spirit level? Most likely most of us have had hundreds of bodies, and the reason we like our appearance, is that our appearance is the sum-result of hundreds of life experiences? each time, our face getting another smile line, or a frown, or a cancer. Our DNA is not random, it is the sum result of hundreds of our Soul?s experiences. If you shed blood in this life, and you can expect to be reincarnated with a DNA gene that causes your body to shed it?s own blood in the form of leukaemia ? lending teeth to Jesus? argument that those that live by the sword will die by the sword.

Getting back to your original point, Jesus raised this same issue of rebirth with Nicodemus. If you read the passage carefully, you will actually see that Nicodemus reflects Jesus statement back to him in an effort to confirm something his brain does not comprehend. He understood what Jesus said ? he just didn?t ?get it?, and Jesus (for whatever reason) did not feel the need to explain it further. Jesus did this a lot.

I have vague memories of my distance lives. There have been several famous people throughout history that have claimed to remember many of them with clarity. I have no doubt, that when Jesus claimed his existence before Abraham, he was remembering it and spoke with conviction? and again? failed to explain it further to the bewildered crowd.

45

virgin birth in Matt and Luke?

by peacefulpete in

robert price (incredible shrinking son of man) has alerted me to an interesting possibility that matt and luke (that is, the original authors) may not have intended that jesus had a miraculous conception.

mark never gives any hint that he was aware of any birth tradition surrounding his jesus, matt and luke have generally been considered the first to incorporate this element into the legend.

however price and jane schaberg (baba pg.116) have reexamined the texts and come to a different conclusion.

UpAndAtom

The spiritual entity *once* know as Luke (the gospel author), reincarnated (resurrected if you will) in recent times as Edgar Cayce and helped shed some light on this matter (and many more). There are countless books dedicated to this man. It will take you more than a cursory look to judge this man? so don?t be put off by my ultra-brief summaries.

Apparently Jesus is the reincarnation of Adam; and Mary is the reincarnation of Eve. The gist of it can be found here (and other places): http://www.near-death.com/experiences/origen041.html

This is a very, very, very big subject, and quite honestly I don?t think there?s enough words in the Bible to even cover a tenth of one percent of the whole truth.

20

Observations at a District Convention

by truman in

.

i finally got my piece to post about three entries down.

UpAndAtom

This is one of the best posts I've seen in a long-long time. Thanks for sharing.

26

Update after talking to family services.

by BLISSISIGNORANCE in

i rang family services this afternoon.. the woman i spoke to was very helpful and honest.. firstly i told her i had rung because the person that abused my child had been seen by me pushing a toddler in a pram and by a friend of mine tickling and touching children at the meetings.

i expressed how fearful i am for the children in the congo.. she wanted the pedos name, my name, my kid's name etc.

she asked what he did to my kid and when i told her she said he was an abuser..........no kidding!

UpAndAtom

Hi Bliss,

Being abused myself, I too have comfronted the sometimes confusing battelground of confronting my absuer (now that I'm a grown man with muscle). On the one hand I want to punish my abuser, on the other I want to follow Jesus' advice of praying for my enemies. It only occured to me recently that my abuser, was probably abused himself as a child. It's a terrible spiral, and I would hate to punish someone that was themselves abused as a kid, and yet on the other hand I want to punch his lights out and tell everyone he know what he did to me. Argh!! What do you do? I have not confronted my abuser as yet... I've been putting it off until I have more money to travel to his current location.

Personaly, I think you've handled this very well. I don't think telling other people will really help. There's something about child abuse that non-abused "don't get". They view abuse as "an incident" not unlike scrapping a knee when you were young. They say, "Why on earth would you harp on about a scrapped knee so many years ago?" They just don't get it, they just don't... and this is exactly why Peter Hollingworth was forced to resign from the position of Governer General. It wasn't until the then governer spent a large amount of time with an abused girl did he stop making such stupid and idiotic statements, but by then he was already forced from office.

I fear that despite your best intentions, you will be unable to force people to "get it". I feel for you on this issue... it's a tough one. If it helps I may be able to spread the word myself if you tell me who it is. Occassionaly I run into the odd witness from time to time, and it would be great to talk about, "Hey... do you know such-and-such? You do? Did you know he abuses children? Yeah, I know the mother of one of the children he abused..." or some such thing.

Just me.

166

Could This Be the Most Repellent Watchtower ....Ever?

by metatron in

jw
friends

you'll be getting the aug. 1 watchtower soon.

on it's rear cover, it has the following article:.

"the branch office of jehovah's witnesses in nigeria recently received a letter that, in part.

UpAndAtom

Buddhism teaches that one must help him/herself first, then your family, then your friends, then any employees, and then your community. This makes good sense, since each step will prepare you for the next one. The basical ideas is you get stronger with each step. By the time you get around to helping your community you should have an excellent chance of success because you will be backed up by family, friends and employees.

The WatchTower is just being a normal company, their first goal is too look after itself first (as with all companies), then it?s family, then it?s employees, then the community at large? but here?s where it gets interesting! The JW?s have no social programs to help people in the community. There are no shelters for the homeless, nor food collection or distribution points. They will not help you find work (as many other social agencies do in our town ? which actually earns them money from the Govt.) They will no give you bread, nor food vouchers. There is no office you can turn too in an emergency. There is no phone number. It?s hard to partake of spiritual food when you?re staving, and the local kingdom hall just does not cut it!

When my family hit rock-bottom and I was stealing food for us to eat. I realized things were bad, and I needed some help. I sought the help of charities.

The local Salvation Army office (http://www.sa.org.au/) helped me within 2 days with a $50 food voucher no questions asked (with the promise of another should I need it ? I didn?t)

The St. Vincent de Paul society (http://www.vinnies.org.au/) came around to our house that very night with 3 shopping bags full of groceries as well as several bags of bread. They asked us no questions whatsoever, no appointment, no paperwork, no preaching, absolutely nothing ? they basically dropped off the food and said, ?enjoy?. An elderly couple from the local church in their 60?s did the shopping right after my phone call and brought it around. I was dumbstruck and it brought tears to my eyes that I had been shown such as compassionate act.

I?m now back on my feet, and only yesterday I passed by a homeless man (rents have sky-rocketed in own town), and just as I was shown compassion, so too did I show compassion. I gave the homeless man money (good money) no questions asked. If I was a JW then there is a good chance I would not have helped this man when he needed it. The best time to help someone is when he or she asks. The best way to learn compassion is to have compassion shown to you. I got no help from my brother who is a JW. They don?t learn compassion. I would hate to survive ?their? Armageddon, only to be trapped with people that have no compassion. That?s my idea of hell!

When I asked my JW brother what they do for people who are down and out, he protested and said, ?We help in other ways!? Then I asked him the phone number of where I could get help, and he admitted that they didn?t help the community like that. There was no number? there are no chickens!

297

What 'exactly' changed in Adam when he sinned?

by gumby in

according to the dubs, and other faiths, adam was created with no defects of any kind.

he was created with no sin.

then adam sinned.

UpAndAtom

I just didn't like the narrow focus that assume a non JW has either Mormon or Scientologist beliefs. Every single time I open my mouth about something a little different, I am always labled an American... but my ideas are more Asian.

Quite patriotic I see!

Being a patriot is something normally associated with Americans isn't it? We don't salute flags, sing songs with hands over our hearts. In fact, most Aussie don't even discuss the issue of being patriotic because this is an American thing.

So in a somewhat humerous summary, I feel that no matter what I say, it will be twisted and turned so that my ideas are American ideas (either pro or con). This is bizzare! Perhaps you yanks need more holidays down-under and see that the world does not revolve around american ideas or religions. You may have black people over there - but in Australia the culture is much more diverse and so are the ideas, thoughts and attitudes.

Now, for some irony. My picture is of American's best fraud or best scientist (the jury is still out)... go figure!

297

What 'exactly' changed in Adam when he sinned?

by gumby in

according to the dubs, and other faiths, adam was created with no defects of any kind.

he was created with no sin.

then adam sinned.

UpAndAtom

Yes, a bold statement, for a bold question.

re: mormon

Thanks pretty funny (and rather sad).

You assume that an Australian that has rejected one American religion, would embrace another American religion. Has it ever occured to you Americans that you are the crazy ones? Us Aussies are pretty laid back, relaxed and well adjusted people. Don't forget, Mormons and JW were created in American - not Australia. The only thing Aussies have exported to the USA are men with Crocodile fetishies, large BEERS and a few bad actors!

Aussie have shorter working hours, many more paid holidays and get 5 weeks paid leave in their first year of employment. We've got it bloody easy mate, thus some of us, have also got plenty of time to research, study and meditate of deeper subjects than our rat-race counterparts in the USA.

In Australia we are known as the quiet achievers, however Americans blow their nose, slap a patent on what they find and sell it 24x7 on the international home shopping market telling everyone just what a fantasic product it is, produce a mini-series on the subject, 5 new books and a Summer blockbuster to boot. Occasionally such a new product will either spawn a new religion, or will support an existing religion in some technical capacity. It's all about Money with Americans, and often the religions are right there with it.

Printed on your currency you state , "In God We Trust" - but only for your next dollar!

Has it ever occured to Americans that China is a major creditor to your 7 Trillion-Trillion dollar debt? People in Asia have a greater degree of understanding of reincarnation, Americans (and I apologise for generalizing) will find they will be in the minority when the tables turn and Asia is the centre of the world, and Asia spawns new religious cults that span the globe. Wow! Could make a good movie? Maybe we should patent the idea without delay!!!

297

What 'exactly' changed in Adam when he sinned?

by gumby in

according to the dubs, and other faiths, adam was created with no defects of any kind.

he was created with no sin.

then adam sinned.

UpAndAtom

Do you make fun of Jesus? Do you make fun of Mary?

Show some respect for the same souls that also lived as Adam and Eve. This thread itself represents the Tree of Life, and the conversations that come forth from your mouths are like the fruit of that tree. Any tree not producing fine fruit will be chopped down. If you don't like the taste of the apple I give you, then stop asking for apples.

297

What 'exactly' changed in Adam when he sinned?

by gumby in

according to the dubs, and other faiths, adam was created with no defects of any kind.

he was created with no sin.

then adam sinned.

UpAndAtom

What 'exactly' changed in Adam when he sinned?

Whilst I am not ?exactly? sure, the gist of it follows:

Jesus and Adam were different incarnations of the same soul... the Christ. So too was Mary and Eve different incarnations of the same soul. Kindred spirits if you like. (Many spirits that incarnated at the same times as Adam, were also known as ?Adam? or the Adam soul-group. The Adam soul-group appeared simultaneously in five different continents as five different races, white, yellow, brown, red and the fifth died out? but I digress.)

When Adam (the Christ soul) was banished from Eden this was actually a blessing of sorts, since death and reincarnation draws ones attention away from desires of the flesh. Basically, there?s nothing like staring death in the face to make you appreciate the source of your life. The Christ then realized at this point, that he was to become saviour of the world. A karmic debt was owed to Eve (since Adam got into trouble), and this was repaid to Mary in his life as Jesus.

BTW, the forbidden fruit represented ?materiality? in general. There was no apple to speak of. There is a hint of this in Genesis when it speaks of interbreeding with the ?daughters of men?.

I don?t have all the answers, but I know I?ve only just scratched the surface here.