Posts by UpAndAtom

Yes... all human souls were created equally... as angles. Free will being what it is, our first instinctive reaction was to rebel. Thus we no longer wanted to stay in heaven. We actually choose to leave.. and how many want to go back??.... sadly very few indeedy-doo. The statement, "Let us make man in our image" has always been a cause for debate, but you've got to have faith that it means what it says! For instance, we have multiple layers of conscience state do we not? Your unconscious mind (such as your dream state), and you're waking conscience state. They are two very distinct states, but are they both you? How much different is this compared to God's statement, for surely we think before we speak. We plan before we act. We dream before we build! Surely God also has multiple layers of conscience states too. Does God dream? Does God need to dream? And of course... are we his dream?

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Troublesome Trinity Verses Part 1

by hooberus in

in this series i hope to discuss some common verses used by the watchtower to "disprove" the trinity and deity of the lord jesus christ.

the first one is 1 corinthians 8:6: .

"but to us there is but one god, the father, of whom are all things, and we in him; and one lord jesus christ, by whom are all things, and we by him.

UpAndAtom

Yes... there are many references of this type. Even Jehovah's name itself. It's a concept I feel that is not necessary to fully understand for our spiritual development, yet it still underpins our existence none the less.

Genesis seemed to be full of inconsistencies and/or riddles to me in the past... however now I read those same riddles and they actually make sense to me now. I don't have to guess, or make excuses, or draw weird assumptions or even quibble about this word or that. This is the kind of understanding that Jesus must've had for the scriptures, and it is one I would like to learn too.

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Troublesome Trinity Verses Part 1

by hooberus in

in this series i hope to discuss some common verses used by the watchtower to "disprove" the trinity and deity of the lord jesus christ.

the first one is 1 corinthians 8:6: .

"but to us there is but one god, the father, of whom are all things, and we in him; and one lord jesus christ, by whom are all things, and we by him.

UpAndAtom

To me it means "outside of time" (not "infinite time" - that's another concept).

The concept of time plays a role that few regard as important or even relevant (as evidenced above), but it so permeates everything in this Universe that it goes unnoticed for it’s true character…. not of past and present… but of existance itself.

All objects assimilate themselves - to themselves in successive moments of their existance. In effect, they cause themselves to stay in existence by their own harmonious assimilation process (as opposed to just dissapearing into nothing). It could be argued that all objects are their own time peieces… however this is wrong thinking.

The use of the word “time” is misleading, for there has never been a word to describe it properly (other than Jehovah’s own name I suppose). This is what prompted God to state, “I am that I am” at Exodus 3:14. (In my opinion, the New World Translation completely misses the point here!)

As an interesting side note, whilst getting ready to submit this post, an impulse in my brain fired and brought back a dream I had many years ago* whereby I was writing this post to you now…. about this very subject. (I dream a lot… so much so, I wake up feeling like I never slept).

* The perception was actually then and now were the same - in effect my argument.

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Does the Soul continue to Exist after the Death of the Body?

by Blueblades in

jw
friends

.

do not be afraid of those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul.rather be afraid of the one who can destroy both soul and body in hell....the words of jesus at matthew 10:28. so,according to jesus,the soul does exist after the death of the body.but in order not to be destroyed you must fear the one who can destroy your soul.. what a way to live!.

blueblades

UpAndAtom

Now here’s a very interesting one…Jesus is talking about Elijah coming back from the dead, and the disiples understood that he was talking about John the Baptist. Their correct understanding confirmed that Jesus’ teaching was understood correctly. Note again, that the idea of reincarnation is not refuted by Jesus, but instead taught. This point ties in very closely with my previous post. You really have to ask yourself why the disciples answered the way they did, if reincarnation was a rejected theory.

*** Rbi8 Matthew 17:10-13 *** 10 However, the disciples put the question to him: “Why, then, do the scribes say that E·li'jah must come first?” 11 In reply he said: “E·li'jah, indeed, is coming and will restore all things. 12 However, I say to YOU that E·li'jah has already come and they did not recognize him but did with him the things they wanted. In this way also the Son of man is destined to suffer at their hands.” 13 Then the disciples perceived that he spoke to them about John the Bapti st.

Consider the following…the disciples are feeling confident with the idea of reincarnation, but are still grasping to understand karmic consequences. They see a blind man in the street and ask Jesus the following question…

*** Rbi8 John 9:1-3 *** 9 Now as he was passing along he saw a man blind from birth. 2 And his disciples asked him: “Rabbi, who sinned, this man or his parents, so that he was born blind?” 3

If reincarnation was wrong, then why didn’t Jesus just say so? After all, how can a man sin before he is born??? Why didn’t Jesus say, “You stupid fools – stop thinking that way!” But instead… he simply explained to them that they should not presume to understand another person’s karma, less they make the whole process a mockery.

21

Does the Soul continue to Exist after the Death of the Body?

by Blueblades in

jw
friends

.

do not be afraid of those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul.rather be afraid of the one who can destroy both soul and body in hell....the words of jesus at matthew 10:28. so,according to jesus,the soul does exist after the death of the body.but in order not to be destroyed you must fear the one who can destroy your soul.. what a way to live!.

blueblades

UpAndAtom

There is evidence that Jesus, Herod the Disciples and even common folk believed in the concept of karmic debt and working this debt out through the process of reincarnation.

*** Rbi8 Matthew 16:13-14 ***
Jesus went asking his disciples: “Who are men saying the Son of man is?” 14 They said: “Some say John the Baptist, others E·li'jah, still others Jeremiah or one of the prophets.”

Why were people expecting to see a prophet that had been dead some few hundred years? The people's thought process was already in existence before Jesus was on the scene. Jesus never rebuked the concept or chastised his followers for this belief. Even Herod himself was familiar with the concept...

*** Rbi8 Luke 9:7-8 ***
7 Now Herod the district ruler heard of all the things happening, and he was in great perplexity because of its being said by some that John had been raised up from the dead, 8 but by others that E·li'jah had appeared, but by still others that a certain one of the ancient prophets had risen.

Jesus even chastised Nicodemus for failing to know or to teach the concept of reincarnation (or so it seems)…

*** Rbi8 John 3:4 ***4 Nic·o·de'mus said to him: “How can a man be born when he is old? He cannot enter into the womb of his mother a second time and be born, can he?”*** Rbi8 John 3:10 ***10 In answer Jesus said to him: “Are you a teacher of Israel and yet do not know these things?

I think it's wise to consider that Nicodemus was a relatively smart man of the times (as evidenced by Jesus holding him to a higher standard), and thus I believe Nicodemus' response truly reflected the meaning Jesus intended. I’m confident I could find many other examples… would anyone care to help?

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The Nine Resurrections???

by Blueblades in

jw
friends

1.elijah resurrected a widow's son.. 2.elisha resurrected a child.. 3.a man who touched elisha's bones came to life.. persons resurrected by jesus:.

1.widow of nain's son.. 2.jairus' daughter.

jesus himself was resurrected.. others who were resurrected.

UpAndAtom

...talking deep this morning

If deep ye see, then deep ye are.

If you doubt the spoken word, how will you percieve the unspoken? If you doubt the acts of Christ, can you believe the acts of men? We live in an age in which a truthful person is disbelieved, a liar believed and the insignificant are having their say.

5

The Nine Resurrections???

by Blueblades in

jw
friends

1.elijah resurrected a widow's son.. 2.elisha resurrected a child.. 3.a man who touched elisha's bones came to life.. persons resurrected by jesus:.

1.widow of nain's son.. 2.jairus' daughter.

jesus himself was resurrected.. others who were resurrected.

UpAndAtom

First decide what is proof to yourself, before seeking an answer… for an answer I can give you… but proof I can not.

I believe an answer to your question parallels the one that perplexed Nicode'mus in John 3. Truly I say to you, in the spirit of Jesus’ own words, “do not marvel” about resurrection or about being born again for it is far more important to worry about how you speak to your fellow man, than it is to concern yourself about a fact of life, that you can not change.

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