Posts by UpAndAtom

26

Update after talking to family services.

by BLISSISIGNORANCE in

i rang family services this afternoon.. the woman i spoke to was very helpful and honest.. firstly i told her i had rung because the person that abused my child had been seen by me pushing a toddler in a pram and by a friend of mine tickling and touching children at the meetings.

i expressed how fearful i am for the children in the congo.. she wanted the pedos name, my name, my kid's name etc.

she asked what he did to my kid and when i told her she said he was an abuser..........no kidding!

UpAndAtom

Hi Bliss,

Being abused myself, I too have comfronted the sometimes confusing battelground of confronting my absuer (now that I'm a grown man with muscle). On the one hand I want to punish my abuser, on the other I want to follow Jesus' advice of praying for my enemies. It only occured to me recently that my abuser, was probably abused himself as a child. It's a terrible spiral, and I would hate to punish someone that was themselves abused as a kid, and yet on the other hand I want to punch his lights out and tell everyone he know what he did to me. Argh!! What do you do? I have not confronted my abuser as yet... I've been putting it off until I have more money to travel to his current location.

Personaly, I think you've handled this very well. I don't think telling other people will really help. There's something about child abuse that non-abused "don't get". They view abuse as "an incident" not unlike scrapping a knee when you were young. They say, "Why on earth would you harp on about a scrapped knee so many years ago?" They just don't get it, they just don't... and this is exactly why Peter Hollingworth was forced to resign from the position of Governer General. It wasn't until the then governer spent a large amount of time with an abused girl did he stop making such stupid and idiotic statements, but by then he was already forced from office.

I fear that despite your best intentions, you will be unable to force people to "get it". I feel for you on this issue... it's a tough one. If it helps I may be able to spread the word myself if you tell me who it is. Occassionaly I run into the odd witness from time to time, and it would be great to talk about, "Hey... do you know such-and-such? You do? Did you know he abuses children? Yeah, I know the mother of one of the children he abused..." or some such thing.

Just me.

166

Could This Be the Most Repellent Watchtower ....Ever?

by metatron in

jw
friends

you'll be getting the aug. 1 watchtower soon.

on it's rear cover, it has the following article:.

"the branch office of jehovah's witnesses in nigeria recently received a letter that, in part.

UpAndAtom

Buddhism teaches that one must help him/herself first, then your family, then your friends, then any employees, and then your community. This makes good sense, since each step will prepare you for the next one. The basical ideas is you get stronger with each step. By the time you get around to helping your community you should have an excellent chance of success because you will be backed up by family, friends and employees.

The WatchTower is just being a normal company, their first goal is too look after itself first (as with all companies), then it?s family, then it?s employees, then the community at large? but here?s where it gets interesting! The JW?s have no social programs to help people in the community. There are no shelters for the homeless, nor food collection or distribution points. They will not help you find work (as many other social agencies do in our town ? which actually earns them money from the Govt.) They will no give you bread, nor food vouchers. There is no office you can turn too in an emergency. There is no phone number. It?s hard to partake of spiritual food when you?re staving, and the local kingdom hall just does not cut it!

When my family hit rock-bottom and I was stealing food for us to eat. I realized things were bad, and I needed some help. I sought the help of charities.

The local Salvation Army office (http://www.sa.org.au/) helped me within 2 days with a $50 food voucher no questions asked (with the promise of another should I need it ? I didn?t)

The St. Vincent de Paul society (http://www.vinnies.org.au/) came around to our house that very night with 3 shopping bags full of groceries as well as several bags of bread. They asked us no questions whatsoever, no appointment, no paperwork, no preaching, absolutely nothing ? they basically dropped off the food and said, ?enjoy?. An elderly couple from the local church in their 60?s did the shopping right after my phone call and brought it around. I was dumbstruck and it brought tears to my eyes that I had been shown such as compassionate act.

I?m now back on my feet, and only yesterday I passed by a homeless man (rents have sky-rocketed in own town), and just as I was shown compassion, so too did I show compassion. I gave the homeless man money (good money) no questions asked. If I was a JW then there is a good chance I would not have helped this man when he needed it. The best time to help someone is when he or she asks. The best way to learn compassion is to have compassion shown to you. I got no help from my brother who is a JW. They don?t learn compassion. I would hate to survive ?their? Armageddon, only to be trapped with people that have no compassion. That?s my idea of hell!

When I asked my JW brother what they do for people who are down and out, he protested and said, ?We help in other ways!? Then I asked him the phone number of where I could get help, and he admitted that they didn?t help the community like that. There was no number? there are no chickens!

297

What 'exactly' changed in Adam when he sinned?

by gumby in

according to the dubs, and other faiths, adam was created with no defects of any kind.

he was created with no sin.

then adam sinned.

UpAndAtom

I just didn't like the narrow focus that assume a non JW has either Mormon or Scientologist beliefs. Every single time I open my mouth about something a little different, I am always labled an American... but my ideas are more Asian.

Quite patriotic I see!

Being a patriot is something normally associated with Americans isn't it? We don't salute flags, sing songs with hands over our hearts. In fact, most Aussie don't even discuss the issue of being patriotic because this is an American thing.

So in a somewhat humerous summary, I feel that no matter what I say, it will be twisted and turned so that my ideas are American ideas (either pro or con). This is bizzare! Perhaps you yanks need more holidays down-under and see that the world does not revolve around american ideas or religions. You may have black people over there - but in Australia the culture is much more diverse and so are the ideas, thoughts and attitudes.

Now, for some irony. My picture is of American's best fraud or best scientist (the jury is still out)... go figure!

297

What 'exactly' changed in Adam when he sinned?

by gumby in

according to the dubs, and other faiths, adam was created with no defects of any kind.

he was created with no sin.

then adam sinned.

UpAndAtom

Yes, a bold statement, for a bold question.

re: mormon

Thanks pretty funny (and rather sad).

You assume that an Australian that has rejected one American religion, would embrace another American religion. Has it ever occured to you Americans that you are the crazy ones? Us Aussies are pretty laid back, relaxed and well adjusted people. Don't forget, Mormons and JW were created in American - not Australia. The only thing Aussies have exported to the USA are men with Crocodile fetishies, large BEERS and a few bad actors!

Aussie have shorter working hours, many more paid holidays and get 5 weeks paid leave in their first year of employment. We've got it bloody easy mate, thus some of us, have also got plenty of time to research, study and meditate of deeper subjects than our rat-race counterparts in the USA.

In Australia we are known as the quiet achievers, however Americans blow their nose, slap a patent on what they find and sell it 24x7 on the international home shopping market telling everyone just what a fantasic product it is, produce a mini-series on the subject, 5 new books and a Summer blockbuster to boot. Occasionally such a new product will either spawn a new religion, or will support an existing religion in some technical capacity. It's all about Money with Americans, and often the religions are right there with it.

Printed on your currency you state , "In God We Trust" - but only for your next dollar!

Has it ever occured to Americans that China is a major creditor to your 7 Trillion-Trillion dollar debt? People in Asia have a greater degree of understanding of reincarnation, Americans (and I apologise for generalizing) will find they will be in the minority when the tables turn and Asia is the centre of the world, and Asia spawns new religious cults that span the globe. Wow! Could make a good movie? Maybe we should patent the idea without delay!!!

297

What 'exactly' changed in Adam when he sinned?

by gumby in

according to the dubs, and other faiths, adam was created with no defects of any kind.

he was created with no sin.

then adam sinned.

UpAndAtom

Do you make fun of Jesus? Do you make fun of Mary?

Show some respect for the same souls that also lived as Adam and Eve. This thread itself represents the Tree of Life, and the conversations that come forth from your mouths are like the fruit of that tree. Any tree not producing fine fruit will be chopped down. If you don't like the taste of the apple I give you, then stop asking for apples.

297

What 'exactly' changed in Adam when he sinned?

by gumby in

according to the dubs, and other faiths, adam was created with no defects of any kind.

he was created with no sin.

then adam sinned.

UpAndAtom

What 'exactly' changed in Adam when he sinned?

Whilst I am not ?exactly? sure, the gist of it follows:

Jesus and Adam were different incarnations of the same soul... the Christ. So too was Mary and Eve different incarnations of the same soul. Kindred spirits if you like. (Many spirits that incarnated at the same times as Adam, were also known as ?Adam? or the Adam soul-group. The Adam soul-group appeared simultaneously in five different continents as five different races, white, yellow, brown, red and the fifth died out? but I digress.)

When Adam (the Christ soul) was banished from Eden this was actually a blessing of sorts, since death and reincarnation draws ones attention away from desires of the flesh. Basically, there?s nothing like staring death in the face to make you appreciate the source of your life. The Christ then realized at this point, that he was to become saviour of the world. A karmic debt was owed to Eve (since Adam got into trouble), and this was repaid to Mary in his life as Jesus.

BTW, the forbidden fruit represented ?materiality? in general. There was no apple to speak of. There is a hint of this in Genesis when it speaks of interbreeding with the ?daughters of men?.

I don?t have all the answers, but I know I?ve only just scratched the surface here.

125

The day a brother died in my Hall, & the unbelievable events that followed.

by Mr Ben in

jw
friends

this one really freaked me out.

i was so brainwashed at the time i found a way to justify it.

i think i?ve been repressing my anger about this and now i need to vent.

UpAndAtom

There was a lovely lady at our cong. that required serious surgery. Of course, she did not accept the normal blood transfusions that went with the surgery.

Everyone in the cong. knew that she was in danger, but instead of asking her family any emotional questions, they just kept asking, "What's her blood pressure?". They just wanted to hear numbers, like they were all frigging doctors!

It was all so heartless I could hardly believe it... just like I can hardly believe this entire thread!

34

They know about UN debacle, but they simply don't care!

by Quotes in

[note: the quotes below are to the best of my memory, but may contain minor errors].

a follow-up to the un evidence i sent to my mom (orignal thread here: http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/11/69232/1.ashx).

i phoned my mum last night to enquire if my missionary-elder .

UpAndAtom

Your parents sound like proud people that don't want to admit the humilitating experience of admitting all of their emotional investment in the 'Tower has been for nought.

The longer their own emotional investiment, the harder it is to admit the problems. I suggest approaching your parents as 'proud people'. Don't make them feel worse for believing the lie... make them feel proud that they can see past it. In this way, you appeal to their ego... their selfish side... their proud side; Everybody likes hearing good things about themselves. Appealing to a person's ego can be a very powerful (and even manipulative) technique.

Tell you Dad you are very pleased that he was intelligent enough to see the truth. Tell him he is wise for studying. Tell him your glad that he seeks out truth. You could even say that waiting on the tower, shows patience... itself a very good virtue. Everything should be positive. I think the seed has been planted... don't be too impatient for the plant to grow and choke out the weeds of ignorance.

25

How To Defeat a Circuit Overseer ( Elders, Please Read)

by metatron in

jw
friends

UpAndAtom

metatron -

Great suggestion - I like it.

Reminds me of my last car purchase. I show an interest in a car, and the sales guys says it's X price, but only for the next 30 minutes because another guy is interested in the car and will be coming back shortly to put in his bid. The very instant he says this, I immediatly tell him, "Oh! Ok... well if you're holding it for someone else don't worry about it" and I instantly drop all interest in the car and walk away. Of course the sales person didn't expect this reaction, and immediatly tries to tell me the other person isn't really that interested in the car and I can put in a good bid...but of course I remind the sales person, "...no no... it's alright, if someone else is interested in it then don't worry"

If you make a salesman lose the sale the very instant they say the wrong thing, they think twice about opening their mouth!

21

One of the stupider laws I've encountered.

by logansrun in

jw
friends

UpAndAtom

Aussie's can drink legally at 18. Aussies can also drive before that too (without attending lessons in school - which we don't have).