by Shining One 49 Replies latest watchtower bible
the only way Christianity did succeed is because it was a truly revealed faith -- and because it had the irrefutable witness of the resurrection.
That or because once Constantine accepted Christianity as the official religion of the empire, people either became Christian, or became dead, a situation that lasted almost up to modern times.
>That or because once Constantine accepted Christianity as the official religion of the empire, people either became Christian, or became dead, a situation that lasted almost up to modern times.
No excuses, Searcher. Christianty was well in place long before Constantine....
Rex
Christianty was well in place long before Constantine....
Proof please.
No excuses, Searcher. Christianty was well in place long before Constantine....
Not WELL in place, Christianity was a minor eastern sect, persecuted and driven underground before Constantine.
Also, as Constantine found, riven with infighting (hence the council of Nicea).
Attention Rex......attention Rex!!!!!
I'm still waiting for your reply as to WHY jesus didn't return to his diciples like he promised. I supplied the scripture you asked for.
Gumby
There are many common threads in all the world's religions,including Christianity,Buddhism,Muslim,etc. They seem to all derive from Egypt from what I have researched. Check this out on the Horus/Jesus Christ myth;
http://www.religioustolerance.org/chr_jcpa5.htm
Comparison of some life events of Horus and Jesus:
Event |
Horus
Yeshua of Nazareth, a.k.a. Jesus
Conception:
By a virgin.
By a virgin.
8Father:
Only begotten son of the God Osiris.
Only begotten son of Yehovah (in the form of the Holy Spirit).
Mother:
Meri.
9Miriam (a.k.a. Mary).
Foster father:
Seb, (Jo-Seph).
9Joseph.
Foster father's ancestry:
Of royal descent.
Of royal descent.
Birth location:
In a cave.
In a cave or stable.
Annunciation:
By an angel to Isis, his mother.
By an angel to Miriam, his mother.
8Birth heralded by:
The star Sirius, the morning star.
An unidentified "star in the East."
Birth date:
Ancient Egyptians paraded a manger and child representing Horus through the streets at the time of the
winter solstice <winter_solstice.htm> (typically DEC-21).Celebrated on DEC-25. The date was chosen to occur on the same date as the birth of Mithra, Dionysus and the Sol Invictus (unconquerable Sun), etc.
Birth announcement:
By angels.
By angels.
8Birth witnesses:
Shepherds.
Shepherds.
8Later witnesses to birth:
Three solar deities.
Three wise men.
8Death threat during infancy:
Herut tried to have Horus murdered.
Herod tried to have Jesus murdered.
Handling the threat:
The God That tells Horus' mother "Come, thou goddess Isis, hide thyself with thy child."
An angel tells Jesus' father to: "Arise and take the young child and his mother and flee into Egypt."
Rite of passage ritual:
Horus came of age with a special ritual, when his eye was restored.
Taken by parents to the temple for what is today called a bar mitzvah ritual.
Age at the ritual:
12
12
Break in life history:
No data between ages of 12 & 30.
No data between ages of 12 & 30.
Baptism location:
In the river Eridanus.
In the river Jordan.
Age at baptism:
30.
30.
Baptized by:
Anup the Baptiser.
John the Baptist.
Subsequent fate of the baptiser:
Beheaded.
Beheaded.
Temptation:
Taken from the desert of Amenta up a high mountain by his arch-rival Sut. Sut (a.k.a. Set) was a precursor for the Hebrew Satan.
Taken from the desert in Palestine up a high mountain by his arch-rival Satan.
Result of temptation:
Horus resists temptation.
Jesus resists temptation.
Close followers:
Twelve disciples.
Twelve disciples.
Activities:
Walked on water, cast out demons, healed the sick, restored sight to the blind. He "stilled the sea by his power."
Walked on water, cast out demons, healed the sick, restored sight to the blind. He ordered the sea with a "Peace, be still" command.
Raising of the dead:
Horus raised Osirus, his dead father, from the grave.
10Jesus raised Lazarus from the grave.
Location where the resurrection miracle occurred:
Anu, an Egyptian city where the rites of the death, burial and resurrection of Horus were enacted annually.
10Hebrews added their prefix for house ('beth") to "Anu" to produce "Beth-Anu" or the "House of Anu." Since "u" and "y" were interchangeable in antiquity, "Bethanu" became "Bethany," the location mentioned in John 11.
Origin of Lazarus' name in the Gospel of John:
Asar was an alternate name for Osirus, Horus' father, who Horus raised from the dead. He was referred to as "the Asar," as a sign of respect. Translated into Hebrew, this is "El-Asar." The Romans added the prefix "us" to indicate a male name, producing "Elasarus." Over time, the "E" was dropped and "s" became "z," producing "Lazarus."
10Transfigured:
On a mountain.
On a high mountain.
Key address(es):
Sermon on the Mount.
Sermon on the Mount; Sermon on the Plain.
Method of death
By crucifixion.
By crucifixion.
Accompanied by:
Two thieves.
Two thieves.
Burial
In a tomb.
In a tomb.
Fate after death:
Descended into Hell; resurrected after three days.
Descended into Hell; resurrected after about 30 to 38 hours (Friday PM to presumably some time in Sunday AM) covering parts of three days.
Resurrection announced by:
Women.
Women.
Future:
Reign for 1,000 years in the Millennium.
Reign for 1,000 years in the Millennium.
Comparison of some characteristics of Horus and Jesus:
Characteristics |
Horus
Yeshua of Nazareth, a.k.a. Jesus
Nature"
Regarded as a mythical character.
Regarded as a 1st century
CE <ce.htm> human man-god.Main role:
Savior of humanity.
Savior of humanity.
Status:
God-man.
God-man.
Common portrayal:
Virgin Isis holding the infant Horus.
Virgin Mary holding the infant Jesus.
Title:
KRST, the anointed one.
Christ, the anointed one.
Other names:
The good shepherd, the lamb of God, the bread of life, the son of man, the Word, the fisher, the winnower.
The good shepherd, the lamb of God, the bread of life, the son of man, the Word, the fisher, the winnower.
Zodiac sign:
Associated with Pisces, the fish.
Associated with Pisces, the fish.
Main symbols:
Fish, beetle, the vine, shepherd's crook.
Fish, beetle, the vine, the shepherd's crook.
Sorry that the information that I sent over did not follow the original format from which it was taken.A clearer summary of the similarities between Jesus Christ and the Egyptian god Horus will be noted by checking out the link that this information was taken from. Not only is JC drawn from Egyptian mythology but also are many of the stories in the OT. Noah's flood is just one example as the following information indicates. Bear in mind that the amentioned civilizations all existed before the OT was compiled!
http://www.talkorigins.org/faqs/flood-myths.html#NearEast
Near East
Sumerian:
The gods had decided to destroy mankind. The god Enlil warned the priest-king Ziusudra ("Long of Life") of the coming flood by speaking to a wall while Ziusudra listened at the side. He was instructed to build a great ship and carry beasts and birds upon it. Violent winds came, and a flood of rain covered the earth for seven days and nights. Then Ziusudra opened a window in the large boat, allowing sunlight to enter, and he prostrated himself before the sun-god Utu. After landing, he sacrificed a sheep and an ox and bowed before Anu and Enlil. For protecting the animals and the seed of mankind, he was granted eternal life and taken to the country of Dilmun, where the sun rises. [
Hammerly-Dupuy , p. 56; Heidel , pp. 102-106]
Egypt:
People have become rebellious. Atum said he will destroy all he made and return the earth to the Primordial Water which was its original state. Atum will remain, in the form of a serpent, with Osiris. [
Faulkner , plate 30] (Unfortunately the version of the papyrus with the flood story is damaged and unclear. See also Budge , p. ccii.)Babylonian:
Three times (every 1200 years), the gods were distressed by the disturbance from human overpopulation. The gods dealt with the problem first by plague, then by famine. Both times, the god Enki advised men to bribe the god causing the problem. The third time, Enlil advised the gods to destroy all humans with a flood, but Enki had Atrahasis build an ark and so escape. Also on the boat were cattle, wild animals and birds, and Atrahasis' family. When the storm came, Atrahasis sealed the door with bitumen and cut the boat's rope. The storm god Adad raged, turning the day black. After the seven-day flood, the gods regretted their action. Atrahasis made an offering to them, at which the gods gathered like flies, and Enki established barren women and stillbirth to avoid the problem in the future. [
Dalley , pp. 23-35]Assyrian:
The gods, led by Enlil, agreed to cleanse the earth of an overpopulated humanity, but Utnapishtim was warned by the god Ea in a dream. He and some craftsmen built a large boat (one acre in area, seven decks) in a week. He then loaded it with his family, the craftsmen, and "the seed of all living creatures." The waters of the abyss rose up, and it stormed for six days. Even the gods were frightened by the flood's fury. Upon seeing all the people killed, the gods repented and wept. The waters covered everything but the top of the mountain Nisur, where the boat landed. Seven days later, Utnapishtim released a dove, but it returned finding nowhere else to land. He next returned a sparrow, which also returned, and then a raven, which did not return. Thus he knew the waters had receded enough for the people to emerge. Utnapishtim made a sacrifice to the gods. He and his wife were given immortality and lived at the end of the earth. [
Sandars , chpt. 5]Sharur destroyed Asag, demon of sickness and disease, by flooding his abode. In the process, "The primeval waters of Kur rose to the surface, and as a result of their violence no fresh waters could reach the fields and gardens." [
Kramer , p. 105]Chaldean:
The god Chronos in a vision warned Xisuthrus, the tenth king of Babylon, of a flood coming on the fifteenth day of the month of Daesius. The god ordered him to write a history and bury it in Sippara, and told him to build and provision a vessel (5 stadia by 2 stadia) for himself, his friends and relations, and all kinds of animals. Xisuthrus asked where he should sail, and Chronos answered, "to the gods, but first pray for all good things to men." Xisuthrus built a ship five furlongs by two furlongs and loaded it as ordered. After the flood had come and abated somewhat, he sent out some birds, which returned. Later, he tried again, and the birds returned with mud on their feet. On the third trial, the birds didn't return. He saw that land had appeared above the waters, so he parted some seams of his ship, saw the shore, and drove his ship aground in the Corcyraean mountains in Armenia. He disembarked with his wife, daughter, and pilot, and offered sacrifices to the gods. Those four were translated to live with the gods. The others at first were grieved when they could not find the four, but they heard Xisuthrus' voice in the air telling them to be pious and to seek his writings at Sippara. Part of the ship remains to this day, and some people make charms from its bitumen. [ Frazer , pp. 108-110; G. Smith , pp. 42-43]
According to accounts attributed to Berosus, the antediluvians were giants who became impious and depraved, except one among them that reverenced the gods and was wise and prudent. His name was Noa, and he dwelt in Syria with his three sons Sem, Japet, Chem, and their wives Tidea, Pandora, Noela, and Noegla. From the stars, he foresaw destruction, and he began building an ark. 78 years after he began building, the oceans, inland seas, and rivers burst forth from beneath, attended by many days of violent rain. The waters overflowed all the mountains, and the human race was drowned except Noa and his family who survived on his ship. The ship came to rest at last on the top of the Gendyae or Mountain. Parts of it still remain, which men take bitumen from to make charms against evil. [H. Miller , pp. 291-292]"
After starting to research the JW religion almost 2 years ago, I have gradually come to the realization that not only was the JW religion built on untruths and deception,but all world religions fit into the same catagory. Sad to say,the bible is just another piece of the mythological picture. Never thought that I would say something like this 2 years ago,but truth is truth.
Proof please???????Do you want a time machine or a truck load of books that deal with the subject? I don't have to prove that Christianity was in place. No historian with any common sense would dispute that. The secular evidence is even greater than the Biblical evidence and it comes from the Roman government leaders and families! The Roman church was even in place before Paul got there and he died in 66-68 A.D.
Rex
Hi Gumby,
>Howdy Rex. If you'll read the verses leading up to this scripture, you'll see they are in relation to Jesus immediate diciples questions as to how THEY would know when their master would come back and take them to his kingdom.....far away from the harsh Roman bondage they were under.
'coming on clouds in glory' is an O.T. prophetic term denoting judgement. THAT was the event to be fullfilled before the 'passing of the generation', not the physical return of Christ. You were a JW too long, sonny.
>It' only honest and completely plain to see that Jesus led his close followers( his diciples he was addressing) to believe they would be rescued by him in their lifetime..............not thousands of years in the future through a resurection from the dead.
Is it really? Have you ever taken each part of the passage in question, done word studies on key words, compared the nuances of prophetic language, reviewed the immediate then the overall context? Whole books and paragraphs of commentaries have been written about this section of scripture. It is not within our ability to 'know the day or the hour', as the Lord said.
Yes, the church did expect the return of Christ at any time. The 'return of Christ' happens for every person when they die and the physical return at the end of this timeline will be final. He waits on the throne of divine providence and for the ultimate salvation of all souls He has predestined to be glorified in heaven.
When one lives in eternity, time is irrelevant.
Rex
>Christianity is no different then Hinduism, Mithraism, Shamanism or any of the thousands of religions invented by humans. They all have their hard core diehard believers, but they are all inventions of human minds whose claims shatter in the light of objective scrutiny.
Oh really, Robert? Your claims themselves also 'shatter in the light of objective scrutiny', so I guess that 'all is vanity and chasing after the wind.'? LOL
Rex
