is the holy spirit a completely seperate entity or is it the will of god?
so many questions, such little support
by had2bhime 44 Replies latest watchtower beliefs
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Satanus
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jgnat
Boy, I'd be kind of nervous about letting a discussion board build a religion for me. I describe things I see more than the things I read about. I am sure a Scottish Castle looks a lot more real in person. The Full Nature of God can only be partially described by imperfect men with an imperfect language.
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had2bhime
im only looking for opinions, my belief is that its the active force of god, i want to know what others think and why
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jgnat
I prefer to talk about tangible things that I can test out, like Christian behavior. Does the person claiming to be a Christian behave like Christ? Do they honor others above themselves? Do they display the fruit of the spirit?
As for discussing the nature of God, it reminds me of the story of the blind men and the elephant. Each could describe in part, but none could describe the whole.
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inquirer
@had2bhime (italic your questions)
I- Is the Quran the truth or is it just stolen ideas from other religions put together by a mad man or a man who was quite possibly visited by a demon rather than an angel?
The sources of the Koran be reduced to six:
* The Old Testament (canonical and apocryphal) and the hybrid Judaism of the late rabbinical schools. During Mohammed's time the Jews were numerous in many parts of Arabia, especially around Medina. Familiarity's with them is undoubtly responsible for many Old Testament stories alluded to in Koran. Later Judaism and Rabbinism are equally well represented (Geiger, "Was hat Mohammed aus dem Judenthum aufgenommen?", Wiesbaden, 1833; tr. Judaism and islam", Madras, 1898).
* The New Testament (canonical and apocryphal) and various heretical doctrines. On his journeys between Syria, Hijaz, and Yemen, Mohammed had every opportunity to come in close touch with Yemenite, Abyssinian, Ghassanite, and Syrian Christians, especially heretic. Hence, while the influence of orthodox Christianity upon the Koran has been slight, apocryphal and heretical Christian legends, on the other hand, are one of the original sources of Koranic faith. (See Muir, op. cit. infra, 66-239; Tisdall, "The Original Sources of the Qur'an", London, 1905, 55-211.)
* Sabaism, a combination of Judaism, Manicheism, and old disfigured Babylonian heathenism.
* Zoroastrianism. On account of Persia's political influence in the north-eastern part of Arabia, it is natural to find Zoroastrian elements in the Koran.
* Hanifism, the adherents of which, called Hanifs, must have been considerable in number and influence, as it is known from contemporary Arabian sources that twelve of Mohammed's followers were members of this sect.
* Native ancient and contemporary Arabian heathen beliefs and practices. Wellhausen has collected in his "Reste des arabischen Heidentums" (Berlin, 1897) all that is known of pre-Islamic Arabian heathen belief, traditions, customs, and superstitions, many of which are either alluded to or accepted and incorporated in the Koran. From the various sects and creeds, and Abul-Fida, the well-known historian and geographer of the twelfth century, it is clear that religious beliefs and practices of the Arabs of Mohammed's day form one of the many sources of Islam. From this heathen source Islam derived the practices of polygamy and slavery, which Mohammed sanctioned by adopting them. (from http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/08692a.htm)- Are the JW the only ones who acknowledge the name of god and use it in their religion?
No. There is a church group in America called the Church of Yahweh.
- Why are the "elders" allowed to kick out or as i feel "judge" another witness?
They are spies. They are told to look out for potential "apostates" in the religion. An anonymous one reports them the elders, the elders kick them out as disfellowshipped. They are a very legalistic organization.
- Is it really logic to think that a loving and caring god would condemn his creation to hell?
No it's not. I agree with the JW's on no hellfire. There is no such place as hell. The dead are concious of nothing.
- What is the closest religion to the truth other than JW?
Take a long bow (and if you forget about the trinity) Seventh Day Adventist. That's where they got all their doomsday dates from!
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had2bhime
the seventh day adventists? never heard of it...fill me in please
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inquirer
They are that religion that owns that breakfast cereal - Sanitarium. As I said they believe in the trinity, they are vegetarians (a lot are.) They have their own learning institutions, don't eat pork, preach at your door sometimes (Last time they came to my door they were asking donations) One of the main oddities about this religion is that the Saturday is the Sabbath day! "Happy sabbath!" as they call it. A lot of people don't respect the organization and find them weird like the JW's and Mormons, but not quite cult-like as these two just mentioned.
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Double Edge
nor can i give credit to religions that support either side during a war.
why not.... the bible is full of God supporting those who fought against evil in high places. There are wars, and there are wars. You only have to look at World War II to see that it was most certainly a war against the utmost evil.
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Mysterious
- Is the Quran the truth or is it just stolen ideas from other religions put together by a mad man or a man who was quite possibly visited by a demon rather than an angel?
Personally I dont believe in any holy books. I think they are all written and compiled by men. But as for the specifics of the Quran I'll let those that are more versed in it explain in more detail.
- Are the JW the only ones who acknowledge the name of god and use it in their religion?
The jews believed the divine name was sacred and not to be tossed around, which is largely why the pronunciation has been lost in our day. Many scholars disagree with the rendering Jehovah, although we can never be sure as hebrew was written solely with consonants.
- Why are the "elders" allowed to kick out or as i feel "judge" another witness?
Because they are like so many others imperfect humans crazed on power and control. The watchtower is just another religion. When you try to hold them up to the high standards you would expect of something that is "the truth" it fails miserably. Were they actually following Jesus' commands they would NOT be judging their fellow man, but as usual they are more interested in control than in biblical truth. Sadly they spin it so well that many fall into the trap of still believing they are inspired by god.
- Is it really logic to think that a loving and caring god would condemn his creation to hell?
Let me put it this way. If a mother felt her child needed to be punished would she abandon the child for the rest of it's life and then place it in a room where it would be punished painfully until it died? Hell no. We'd call such a mother heinous and callous and condemn her actions as despicable. So no I dont think it is logical to think that a loving god would condemn someone to hell for all eternity.
- What is the closest religion to the truth other than JW?
There is no such thing as absolute truth. It is another deception like so many others in the world. Religions will always describe themselves as true, and indeed those that follow them will as well. But that holds true doesnt it? Why admit your religion is not true, then you would have no followers. And why follow a religion you admit is not true, would that not be a pointless waste? Therefore in order for religions to exist and for people to put their faith in such the claim that there is an absolute truth must be made. Unfortunately there is no basis for the claim that there is an absolute universal truth. Many have found peace with faith, science or themselves; however, none of them have found the truth because it does not exist in another but the hypothetical realm.
~Unrepentant Atheist
~Former Pagan, Former seeker, Former JW