Book Study Wk 20 11/7: pg 136-144: A SMALL HORN GAINS THE ASCENDANCY

by ithinkisee 28 Replies latest watchtower bible

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  Schizm

  The "little horn" that finally arose from out of one of the goat's 4 horns appropriately represented the next-to-arise government that would exercise Universal Rule, which proved to be Rome.--Schizm.

  Chapter 8 of Daniel says 22 The four horns that replaced the one that was broken off represent four kingdoms that will emerge from his nation but will not have the same power. 23 "In the latter part of their reign, when rebels have become completely wicked, a stern-faced king, a master of intrigue, will arise.

  The interpretation in Daniel 8 shows that the small horn that comes out of one of the 4 Greek kingdoms is a 'stern faced king, a master of intrique'. That would be Antiochus Epiphanes. He reigned towards the 'latter part' or end of the Seleucid Empire before the Romans and Parthians took over.--City Fan.

  As usual, City Fan, you don't know what you're talking about.

  "Horns" ALWAYS exercise Universal Rule. The 1st horn of the goat (under Alexander) exercised Universal Rule. The 4 horns of the goat exercised Universal Rule. Likewise, the last-to-arise horn, the "little horn," has to also exercise Universal Rule. It's a fact of history that the Universal Rule of the 4 horns was followed by the Universal Rule of Rome.

  Now, go back to your seat and be quite.

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  Schizm

  8 And the male of the goats, for its part, put on great airs to an extreme; but as soon as it became mighty, the great horn [Alexander] was broken, and there proceeded to come up conspicuously four [Alexander's 4 Generals] instead of it, toward the four winds of the heavens.

  9 And out of one of them there came forth another horn, a small one [Rome], and it kept getting very much greater toward the south and toward the sunrising and toward the Decoration [Jerusalem & Temple]. 10 And it kept getting greater all the way to the army of the heavens, so that it caused some of the army and some of the stars to fall to the earth, and it went trampling them down. 11 And all the way to the Prince of the army [Jehovah God] it put on great airs, and from him the constant [feature] was taken away, and the established place of his sanctuary [the Temple] was thrown down [in 70 C.E.]. 12 And an army itself was gradually given over, together with the constant feature [daily sacrifices at the Temple], because of transgression [Jews rejection of the Messiah; "we have no king but Ceasar"]; and it [Rome] kept throwing truth to the earth, and it acted and had success. -- Daniel 8:8-12.

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  jgnat

  Schizm, is it true you are the ancient Proplog2?
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  AlmostAtheist

  It is ridiculous, to the extreme, to apply the world-sweeping prophecies in Revelation to the date a few men from an obscure religion ;were released from jail. ; Was their release timed to a catastrophic loss of world influence by the Anglo-American and Church powers? ; Hardly. ; The war was essentially done and those men were no longer a threat to national security.

  Ridiculous, yes. But there's a thrill that comes with being among the tiny elite that know what's REALLY going on. You see these "illuminati" threads every so often, people eat that kinda crap up like caramel popcorn. JW's are constantly taught that they are the elite, they get to know stuff that the rest of the world doesn't know.

  So when the whole world thinks it is releasing the JW's from jail, but the JW's themselves know that it was PROPHESIED in the Bible and that the real reason is to fulfill that prophecy, well, that just pumps up the ol' ego even higher. Once you're willing to let them feed you this stuff, it just gets better and better, with scorpian tails being prophecies about Watchtower magazines and who knows what else.

  Dave of the "pumped up ego" class (Yeah, I bought it all...)
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  City Fan

  It's a fact of history that the Universal Rule of the 4 horns was followed by the Universal Rule of Rome

  Well I was only repeating what the bible itself says is the interpretation of that vision, that the four horns were the four lesser kingdoms that came from the Greek Empire including the Seleucid and Ptolemaic kingdoms and that the small horm came out of one of these towards the end of it's existence. If you prefer your own wacko interpretation of that chapter rather than rely on the explanation given in chapter 8 of Daniel then that's up to you. But how does your statement that "The 4 horns of the goat exercised Universal Rule" not conflict with verse 22 which says: "The four horns that replaced the one that was broken off represent four kingdoms that will emerge from his nation but will not have the same power" ?
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  Finally-Free

  31 Harassment of God’s anointed ones climaxed on June 21, 1918, when the president, J. F. Rutherford, and prominent members of the Watch Tower Bible and Tract Society were sentenced on false charges to long prison terms. Intending “to change times and law,” the “small” horn had effectively killed the organized preaching work. (Revelation 11:7) So the foretold period of “a time, and times and half a time” ended in June 1918.

  32 But “the holy ones” were not wiped out by the harassment from the “small” horn. As prophesied in the book of Revelation, after a short period of inactivity, the anointed Christians became alive and active again. (Revelation 11:11-13) On March 26, 1919, the president of the Watch Tower Bible and Tract Society and his associates were released from prison, and they were later exonerated of the false charges against them. Immediately thereafter, the anointed remnant began to reorganize for further activity. What, though, would be in store for the “small” horn?

  This is one thing that made no sense to me as a JW. Many people have spent a little time in jail when innocent of any crime - myself included, but most do not interpret it as some kind of fulfillment of prophecy. I wish these JW crackheads would get over themselves! A handfull of cultists spend a few months in jail and then spend the next hundred years squealing like bloody pigs about it! W
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  Schizm

  Schizm, is it true you are the ancient Proplog2?

  Are you kidding? That guy is a real fruitcake. He makes attempts at interpreting the Bible, and he doesn't even accept the Bible as being God's word. Go figure!

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  Schizm

  It's a fact of history that the Universal Rule of the 4 horns was followed by the Universal Rule of Rome.--Schizm.

  But how does your statement that "The 4 horns of the goat exercised Universal Rule" not conflict with verse 22 which says: "The four horns that replaced the one that was broken off represent four kingdoms that will emerge from his nation but will not have the same power" ?--City Fan.

  You question whether or not Greece still exercised Universal Rule after Alexander died and the kingdom became divided amongst his 4 generals. The goat [Greece] finds its parallel in the 3rd beast of chapter 7--a leopard that has 4 heads to correspond with the goat's 4 horns.

  “After this I kept on beholding, and, see there! another [beast], one like a leopard, but it had four wings of a flying creature on its back. And the beast had four heads, and there was given to it rulership indeed.--Daniel 7:6.

  There's no suggestion in the text just quoted that Greece would no longer exercise Universal Rule once it became divided up amongst the 4 generals.

  The goat [Greece] finds an additional parallel in the 2nd chapter, as quoted below. Note that there's no hint of Greece loosing control and not exercising Universal Rule until the time that Rome came to occupy that position.

  “And after you [Babylon] there will rise another kingdom [Medo-Persia] inferior to you; and another kingdom [Greece], a third one, of copper, that will rule over the whole earth.--Daniel 2:39.

  Now, to repeat your question:

  But how does your statement that "The 4 horns of the goat exercised Universal Rule" not conflict with verse 22 which says: "The four horns that replaced the one that was broken off represent four kingdoms that will emerge from his nation but will not have the same power" ?

  With regards to "power" (strength), is there any surprise that Greece was much stronger during the time of Alexander than what it came to be under the control of the 4 generals. Can a weaker Greece still exercise Universal Rule? Of course it can! Even after Greece came to be ruled by those 4 generals it still exercised Universal Rule, and it continued to do so until Rome came to occupy the very same position--the position of Universal Rule.

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  City Fan

  Schizm,

  Why do you think the book of Daniel mentions Greece by name but not Rome? Isn't it more logical that the divided kingdom mentioned in chapter 8 is the same as that mentioned in chapters 2:41 and 11:4?
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  Schizm

  By the way, the Society's idea that the 7th King is a "dual world power" (i.e. Britain & America) is seen to be faulty because Britain & America have NEVER exercised Universal Rule.

  The requirement of exercising Universal Rule is the key to properly understanding the identity of the 7th and 8th Kings of Bible prophecy. The nation, or nations, that exercise Universal Rule are not in a mere "dominant" role, as are the nations of Britain & America. Instead, they are a nation, or nations, whose rule encompasses all peoples of their day ("wherever the sons of mankind are dwelling"; Da 2:38).

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