I knew Nark would be a big chicken cuz I stumped him. Where the heck are ya.....workin or sumthin!
Gumby
Unlearning
by Narkissos 29 Replies latest jw friends
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MegaDude
I unlearned a lot of stuff by learning more (and to me) new stuff.
First, good books:
First I read the forbidden anti-JW books and learned about the history of my own church (Apocalypse Delayed, Crisis of Conscience, WItnesses of Jehovah, et cetera)
I started reading the history of the major religions (Karen Armstrong's The History of God, The Battle for God, Buddha, A Short History of Islam) and started seeing familiar negative patterns.
I read books on psychology and cults to figure out how I got fooled for so long. (Combatting Cult Mind Control, Toxic Faith, The Road Less Traveled, People of the Lie)
Michael Crichton's book "Travels" gave me a new paradigm to live life by. Just go out and experience it and draw your own conclusions.
Second: Sharing the experience and learning from others.
People are such a valuable resource of experience and wisdom. I paid particular attention to those who seemed to have their shit together better than me. Especially those that were happier. I've learned valuable, valuable wisdom from them..
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jgnat
About books. I read very few religious or self-help type books. I am inspired by concepts and real-life experiences. Here's a few of my life-changing books. At least some of them. I only recently started to write them down, and now only my library knows for sure.
Becoming Human by Jean Vanier
Education of a Wandering Man by Louis L'Amour
Black Berry, Sweet Juice by Lawrence Hill
The Courage to Write by Ralph Keyes
On Writing Well by William Zinsser
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MegaDude
knew Nark would be a big chicken cuz I stumped him. Where the heck are ya.....workin or sumthin!
Perhaps he's trying to stop the local Muslims from burning his car.
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Narkissos
Hey Gum-brag I'm back! Beware, this thread may be too small for both of us!
Now then.....you don't "unlearn" something.......you re-learn. If you unlearn, you forget what you learned......like some bastard with alzheimers or sumthin. If you relearn, you still remember what you learned previously, but you learn to do/view correctly.
Well, it's a figure of speech. I do remember a lot of JW stuff 20 years later -- before coming here I didn't even know I could remember so much of it. But I have unlearnt it in the sense of giving it up as a solid reference. Instead of "the truth" it's just "some bs JWs teach" and no one else cares about. Of course it is (or more exactly it may be) part of a broader process of re-learning. Megadude has described the process of unlearning by re-learning -- new stuff naturally erasing the old. But I don't think it can work that way for everyone. The obsessional type of person, for instance, can be quite wary of receiving new information jeopardising his (more often than her) imaginary consistency. He cannot really learn if he doesn't erase, or even re-format, first. And this is a jump into the unknown, or into the void. It is also difficult for some because they have to step down from the position of the teacher (who knows) to that of the student (who learns).
Megadude: No car burning here so far -- peaceful countryside just a few dozen miles away from Paris... and, mind you, this time it has very little to do with Islam.
Gullydwarf, welcome! Hope to hear more from you and that this forum may help.
Thanks all for your interesting thoughts, suggestions and experiences. Keep them coming. I'll try to share more personal stuff on this issue later on.
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LittleToe
Sorry Didier, I'm with Gumby on this one. He's got ya by the short and curlies
How did I relearn?
After struggling for a couple of months over doctrines (merely with bible reading) I dropped it like a funeral shroud. A few months later again I left the JWs.
I now reach milestones of "belief", but they are just waymarkers en route. My beliefs are mine and sometimes are similar to those of others, but I'm enjoying the journey and eclecticism suits me
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Narkissos
I smell a Gumbeo-ScottishMasonic conspiracy!
I guess my experience in leaving the WT mindset was epistemologically more destructive than yours Ross. It led me to question, not only the validity of one particular doctrinal construction, but more basically the possibility of building any similar construction. There was nothing of that kind to replace it. Of course I could (and did) learn some history, linguistics and philosophy. But religious dogmatics (as "truth," not as mere "history") is something I couldn't learn anymore. I had unlearnt it radically.
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Kaput
Unlearn: To discard or put aside certain knowledge as being false or binding.
Relearn: To learn something again, as after having forgotten or neglected it.
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LittleToe
How about de-learn?
I should explain that my "dogma" is experiential. Theory, theology and philosophy merely hook onto it, providing a framework to explain it. Every now and then I shake it all up and re-examine it. I trip over my own feet once in a while, but IMHO that's as it should be. Part of the experience is getting back up, dusting yourself off, and setting out again. We lack an essential experience in life if we are too scared to permit that to happen.
The only thing that remains a constant, to me, is Christ - and even that is somewhat unbounded.
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gumby
Kaput, ya squeeling barstard! Why'd ya hafta expose me? Your dictionary is outdated and is old light.
I guess my experience in leaving the WT mindset was epistemologically more destructive than yours Ross. It led me to question, not only the validity of one particular doctrinal construction, but more basically the possibility of building any similar construction. There was nothing of that kind to replace it. Of course I could (and did) learn some history, linguistics and philosophy. But religious dogmatics (as "truth," not as mere "history") is something I couldn't learn anymore. I had unlearnt
As Ross mentioned...."he learns some from others." Myself also
I looked at christianity from a christians point of view first through COC as Ray himself saw it. It was the same message that is the general concept all of christianity that being salvation rests in christ alone that came through grace.
He did not accept all doctrinal views orthodox christianity holds and that made me feel a bit better in learning many others felt the same. I had no idea christianity was diverse and that diversity was ok.......so I guess I had to unlearn my previous beliefs as a witness concerning this. This is one of shitloads of things I needed to relearn. I'm still relearning.
Gumlearn/unlearn