by UnDisfellowshipped 66 Replies latest watchtower bible
Yes, I understand. But this is also the basis of much of the confusion. It`s hard for people to see this duality in christ, and then, in their minds, seperate between the two "modes" of Christ.
And that situation in Getsemane, were Jesus` humanity is very clear, was dramatised beatifully in "The passion of the Christ", imo.
I agree, and yet similarly folks find it just as difficult to imagine themelves in "heaven".
I haven't read through the posts; I am just responding to the question: Is Jesus Christ God? And I address my response to no one in particular.
We have traditionally been raised to look at God as a thing, a circumscribed entity with limits and boundaries, e.g. Jesus is God, and you are not God.
When the vibrancy of life is so evident in and around us, why do we so easily allow the conceptual beliefs and interpretations of the mind to shrink and reduce our Source and Sustenance to an object separate? Is there another way of understanding? Is there another way of realizing the foundational Reality of our being? Perhaps a way that is more immidieate than words written thousands of years ago? A way that unites us one and all?
Is what the word G-o-d points to, a mere thing, object or deity? Or is It INFINITLY more and all encompassing; and can we awaken to it as our own true being?
j
I would say Phil. 2:6 does it for me. My .02
Wow a biblical thread 4 pages Shouldnt a resident atheist squash this silly talk soon?
Alright I've found Trinitarianism, Arianism, and Modalism to have been mentioned. So I'm going to toss in a particular gnostic heresy for your consideration. That the man Jesus was the vessel for the Heavenly Redeemer. Not the God-Man but the nexus point: God in Man. Then upon Jesus' death he was raised up and given a glory on par with the Logos. The appeal coming from the additional slant that this same hope is open to all humans.
LittleToe, hi, how are you doing?
I'm sorry for taking so long to come back to this thread (the holiday season got kind of hectic for me, and I didn't get to post here very much).
You said:
UnDFed:One needs to be very careful when playing around with "functional subordination", for fear that confusion and misunderstanding arise. Christ was subordinate in the flesh, but then exalted in name. It's all good.
I agree that one should be very careful about teaching the doctrines of the God's Word ("rightly dividing the Word").
But don't we all agree that one should not shy away from certain Verses in favor of other Bible Verses, just because it may be controversial? I believe that every single word of the Bible was God-breathed by The Holy Spirit, and that every thing in the Bible is there for a reason, and that reason is to teach us the truth that God wants us to know about Himself.
Look into it: "Subordinationism" was a heresy. "Functional Subordinationism" is Biblical doctrine.
Jesus Christ is equal to God in every way (essence, power, eternity, infinity, attributes). However, within the Godhead there are "ranks" or "positions," and The Father has a higher "rank" than The Son -- IN RELATION TO EACH OTHER. But, in relation to US, they are equal in rank. We should worship them equally, praise them equally, honor them equally, pray to them equally. Something to think about -- The Holy Spirit's rank: Joh 15:26 (MKJV) And when the Comforter has come, whom I will send to you from the Father, the Spirit of truth who proceeds from the Father, He shall testify of Me. Joh 16:7 (MKJV) But I tell you the truth, it is expedient for you that I go away; for if I do not go away, the Comforter will not come to you. But if I depart, I will send Him to you. Joh 13:16 (MKJV) Truly, truly, I say to you, A servant is not greater than his master, neither is he who is sent greater than he who sent him. The Lord Jesus Christ must have a higher "rank" than The Holy Spirit within the Godhead, otherwise, why would He be SENT by Jesus?
I was definitely not ever trying to say that Jesus was lesser or inferior than The Father.
UnDFed:Sorry I never relied to your question on this thread. I must have missed your reply, and only picked it up again by reading what you'd referenced in a far more recent thread.
Look into it: "Subordinationism" was a heresy. "Functional Subordinationism" is Biblical doctrine.
I did look into it, and warned that you take care in your use/explanation of this doctrine. Similarly I take issue with using the term "rank", as it conveys the wrong meaning to your readers.
As for the example of one sent, one of the secretaries sent me for coffee the other day, while they finished some work for me. In what sense does that make me subordinate to them, since I am their boss' manager? Isn't it in the sense that I "humble myself and make myself as a servant", even though I could fire their ass?
Christ's humbling himself doesn't detract from his glory or deity. He just popped down here on an errand to get some "coffee", while his daddy hand-picked his new friends. My point being that it doesn't necessarily follow that the one "sent" is of a lower "rank" than the one doing the sending.
You may be starting to see a theme to my posts, by now. I enjoy challenging preconceptions and assumptions. But then I had a good teacher
