What do you _really_ think?

by daystar 86 Replies latest jw friends

• 

  coolhandluke

  But I am just shrugging my shoulders and saying, Insulting me does not prove your point, it proves mine.

  I do admire you for not getting defensive, as most would and one did,

  I did not realize that I insulted you. If I did, that was not the intent. The insult to you would be simply agreeing with what, correct me if I am wrong, seemed to be a blanket judgement of others based on what you perceive their intention to be. The entire reason for existing for me is to learn. How do I learn if people constantly agree with me? That'll just give me a swelled head and lead to me not learning anything. So perhaps this little exchange is a learning experience for me. I do not believe that I was defensive, merely asking questions in a playful manner. If I was, point it out. I have nothing to defend only that I disagree with your opinion of why daystar posted this thread. He's a big boy. He can defend himself.
• 

  Golf

  I always give people the benefit of the doubt and time. Time is my friend, time reveals.
  
  
  Golf
• 

  Jez

  So Cool, what was the 'intent' in saying the following?

  Again, pull that wand out of your nethers. Oh my bad, I should ask since I don't know you. Jez, from your overall judgemental comments to many not just in this thread, it would seem that you have a foreign object lodged firmly in your nethers. Is that so? If it is, could you pull it out? Do you need some help? It seems to be causing an inward pain that makes your outward statements caustic. Ahhh there we go. Much better. Would you like some salve?

  Jazzing up an old cliche, "You've got something stuck up your ass" speaks volumes about how you deal with comments that you don't agree with or like. Since when did having an opinion, being asked to share that opinion deserve a comment like above ???? I am not "insulted" by your comment, it makes me laugh because it is such a poor attempt to make me see your perspective of things.

  Are you game for some constructive c riticism ?

  Daystar..once I read the content of this thread to see what it was about, the first question that popped into my head was, is he serious? Every single day we see mirror images of ourselves in others, we self correct, self analyze or applaud. People always think it is better to applaud others and build their self esteem in any little thing, so that it will continue, rather than point out the negatives. "Focus on the positive, not the negative". In the school system, it is the reasoning behind why we don't say, "No hitting" We say "Hands and feet to self" or we don't say, "No swearing" rather "Polite words only".

  Our society has swung to incredibly positive and uplifting, to the point where people can't take the tiniest bit of critisim. I was laughing the other day when my friend, who works at city hall, was telling me how careful she had to be when talking to this women about missing a deadline. NO, she couldn't say, "You missed a deadline, get on it, I need it NOW," She had to say, "I realize that it is a busy work enviroment and that it is often difficult to met deadlines, but I would appreciate it if you would let me know if you can't meet a deadline and we can resolve this issue together." WHATEVER!

  I knew that you would not get any constructive criticism, it just doesn't feel comfortable or fair to give to a stranger that you barely know or know only from a forum. It is also taking a risk in how it will be perceived, but you must have already known that when you asked the question, you seem far too quick and intelligent not to, which means, that you would have already known you would have gotten 'love', therefore, my comment about this being a pathetic attempt at attention etc.

  You got what you knew you would get, but got it by asking for something that you knew no one would be willing to give. Clever and manipulative, perhaps????
• 

  daystar

  JEZ

  I had a rather long response ready to post earlier, but it seems there were some problems earlier on JWD and it was cast to the ether.

  In short, I don't entirely disagree. I don't have a problem with beneficial manipulation. I didn't already know what sort of response I would get, although I had my suspicion. Your sort of response was more the sort I was looking for. Your response validates my intention.
• 

  Jez

  Daystar: The more you write, the more I like ya...lol Sometimes, I really like humans. Your ability to surpress defensiveness is rare.

  Cheers Jez
• 

  coolhandluke

  I knew that you would not get any constructive criticism, it just doesn't feel comfortable or fair to give to a stranger that you barely know or know only from a forum. It is also taking a risk in how it will be perceived, but you must have already known that when you asked the question, you seem far too quick and intelligent not to, which means, that you would have already known you would have gotten 'love', therefore, my comment about this being a pathetic attempt at attention etc.

  Like you Jez it makes my spleen itch to see threads attempting to evoke sympathy from people that are only known to them by posts in a discussion forum. It makes me want to yell "Get a freaking life". But that makes me not in a position to help them, so maybe someone else can. The fact that daystar created the thread is what made me post in the first place. I doubted that the above mentioned motive was his intent. My post was giving him the benefit of that doubt. I just took what he "said" at face value in that he wanted people to be raw. I didn't have anything to be raw with him about. The only thing I could think of at that moment is that he seems to hide himself inside of his posts. Perhaps that is just this medium, I don't know.

  You seem like a truly intelligent woman Jez. From what I've read that you have posted you just seem caustic at the wrong times. I seems that, and I might be wrong, the behind the scenes motive is to get the party with whom you are speaking to truly evaluate their position and perhaps choose a different course. I simply take personal(my own issue) acception with the way you say things. Perhaps this is my JW programming and diplomatic upbringing speaking but what is wrong with phrasing your words in a manner that evokes thought and not irritation from your listening audience? If the motive is to readjust and you've just expended your time for that cause, is your intent not lost by the persons disregard of what you've said by not taking their situationally imposed fragility into consideration?

  CHL
• 

  daystar

  CHL

  You are more familiar with me than Jez is. And so you took what I wrote at face value. You have two different perspectives is all.

  I suspect that Jez might react a bit differently (though not too much so, I hope) should something like this come up again, with me.

  The only thing I could think of at that moment is that he seems to hide himself inside of his posts.

  Also, perhaps I didn't give credit where credit is due. You also offered some critique, which I greatly appreciate.
• 

  coolhandluke

  Also, perhaps I didn't give credit where credit is due. You also offered some critique, which I greatly appreciate.

  Thanks daystar. You've said before that healing from the crap imposed on you from being inside is your goal. I hope you reach that and that this forum plays a small part in it
• 

  daystar

  The more you write, the more I like ya

  Thank you.

  Sometimes, I really like humans.

  I love humans. I don't care for idiots and losers much, but that's all relative now, isn't it?

  Your ability to surpress defensiveness is rare.

  Don't give me too much credit. I do have my days. But if I took a defensive stance to someone responding to this thread in all personal honesty, vitriolic or not, it would be to my detriment. How could I expect honesty from people if they're going to get snapped at for doing so? I have a four-year-old son. I learned that lesson very quickly.

  You have gained some respect from this one. (Not that you were looking for it.) I'm looking forward to reading more from you.
• 

  Jez

  Like you Jez it makes my spleen itch to see threads attempting to evoke sympathy from people that are only known to them by posts in a discussion forum. It makes me want to yell "Get a freaking life".

  Hmmm, I don’t care if people do it, just be aware of what you are doing and why. See, you hide your true feelings about this thread from Daystar, I only told him what he asked to hear (see his recent response above). I would not jump into a "tell me why I am great or you are great or we are great or who is so wonderful that I want to meet them" thread and be this honest. I only did it because that is what he challenged us to do. I can’t resist a challenge or a risk. True.

  I doubted that the above mentioned motive was his intent.

  See his reply above again.

  Perhaps this is my JW programming and diplomatic upbringing speaking but what is wrong with phrasing your words in a manner that evokes thought and not irritation from your listening audience?

  BINGO! "Don’t stumble others" "Be careful what you say." "Season our sayings with salt" "Find a common ground with the householder" "Don’t disagree, redirect" There was always a way around any conversation stopper, masters at saying the right thing, at the right time. Starting with "baby food" and moving people onto more "solid food" as they became ready. Remember to try not to size someone up on the first ‘visit’, shoe-boxing people is what JWs do best. You think you know me already??? You don’t. I don't aim to please everyone, all the time. Sometimes I feel like I was taught everything backasswards. I have had to reevaluate every single friggin belief, assumption, value, etc that I ever had because most of them were tainted, skewed, unreal, based on a very narrow view of the world or not really mine. I am still doing that and may never be 'done'.

  If the motive is to readjust and you've just expended your time for that cause, is your intent not lost by the persons disregard of what you've said by not taking their situationally imposed fragility into consideration?

  My intent was not lost, it was not for all to get. I don't assume that all people will 'get' my intent. That would be presumptuous of me. It was for Daystar, and he was/is strong enough to take it because he overtly ASKED for it. Again, please don’t assume that I am looking for any place in inject myself. I try to be careful and considerate, most of the time.

  I simply take personal(my own issue) acception with the way you say things.

  And so don’t you think that your intent (to make me look at myself and my chosen words) is lost as soon as you started in on your little stick up the ass comment? Talk to the preacher. "Out of the Gospel he tho wordes caughte, And this figure he added eek therto: That if gold ruste, what shal iren do?" "He taughte, but first he folwed it himselve." (Chaucer-The Canterbury Tales)

  Don’t knock on my door until you knock on your own.

  Oh, and as for saying that I seem like an intelligent person, why thank you for that unsolicited compliment. I will return it: You seem like the kind of guy I could sit down with and debate life, people, etc with for hours and actually enjoy it.

  Jez