by Qcmbr 167 Replies latest jw friends
It isn't just christians that get this, its anyone that believes in a higher power. I've taken plenty of abuse from christians too, so I end up sometimes getting it from both sides.
We should all just be respectful of other people's belief systems, that includes those that you do not buy into.
Sherry
There is some unfriendliness here in the forum,...and it is driving people away!
One example is a person who just started to post here last month, and now is going to move onward, as they were experiencing too many attacks for what they have posted here!
It is a shame too, as this new poster has written some interesting things.
--VM44
Qcmbr,
There is a tendancy for an atheist to feel that he has reasoned out his position, accepting the "truth" wherever it leads him. This can lead to arrogance of the same kind that plagues anyone else that feels they have "the Truth".
I'm speaking in generalities here, not naming or even thinking of any names.
It's a common fallacy to think that two people given the exact same set of information will arrive at the same conclusions. So I'm an atheist and you're not. I have to conclude that you lack some information that I have. I show it to you, and you stubbornly hold to your theist views! I quickly shift from thinking you lack information to thinking you must be a blithering idiot since I've given you all that I know and you STILL DON'T AGREE WITH ME!!
Of course, the above only happens if I forget that you and I could easily see the same information, but interpret it differently. I try very hard to remember that, but I don't always succeed.
1+1=2 - That's just true and it's not open to interpretation
(Earth we can survive on) + (people comfortable and healthy living on earth) = [either evolution or creation, both camps point to this evidence as proving their point.]
There the evidence is the same, but the interpretation is different. I don't agree with your interpretation, but I still respect your decision to hold it.
There were a few anti-atheist threads lately that got way out of hand, and the atheists/agnostics came out in force with vitriol to spare. (There may in fact have been a measure of crapulence!) But those were isolated threads; please don't think of them as the norm.
I enjoy hearing from you, I would not want this to become an atheist board.
I already know what Tetra's going to say; I agree with him. It's the creationists and Bible-believers and pagans that keep me thinking.
Don't let me stop thinking, Q! ;-)
Dave
Thanks - I've had some really nice PMs sorry - for starting a negative thread - maybe I'm just getting too sensitive in my old age.
I agree completely...I don't care who or what you serve, or if you serve no one but yourself. To each their own. I think me personally...I just don't like people who can't or won't try to understand...to see the other side of whatever convo/topic you're on. I'm not talking about agreement. I mean how many of us wholeheartedly disagree with others here...but we're still able to be civil. Agree to disagree perhaps? But to not accept that others are happy or question their idealogy or status quo...well that's just unacceptable.
I think those are the only topics that I've ever gotten sparky on. I find that to be the biggest insult, to if nothing else, to NOT just to suspend 'belief/disbelief' for a moment and put yourself in the other person's shoes. And how many of us were at that point when we were in the Organization? How many times did we figurative (or literally, heck, I don't know how you played) stuck your fingers in your ears and sang "La la la la la!" so as to not hear the other persons' points?
I welcome viewpoints. If it interests me enough, I go on after and do research on my own. But you're right, being abusive, snarky, condescending and arrogant is no way to win followers or influence people. You catch more flies with honey than vinegar.
How many people are still, alabeit unconsciously still trapped in that "Jdub" mindset of "attack attack attack, disprove, disprove disprove!" Yes, although some have grown to have different concepts of 'theology' or lack thereof, how many haven't been able to let go of that absolute thruth-ism?
"The truth is rarely pure and never simple." - Oscar Wilde
Qcmbr -- You won't feel so bad after you're done teething.
Qcmbr:
I've been here a long time and I've always been a vocal atheist, so I feel something of a need to defend myself against these comments.
1/ Preaching aethism (as opposed to putting it forward in a respectful way as an alternate viewpoint.)
I don't think I've ever "preached" atheism. However, I make no apologies for the fact that I do not believe in any gods, that I think that those who do are mistaken, and that the specific teachings of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints are utter nonsense. I've always tried to be polite about this.
2/ Vitriolic attacks on those who dare have another view ('damn those stupid heretical believers')
I do occasionally ridicule people who make logically inconsistent statements or those who refuse to argue rationally. This is mostly done as a last ditch attempt to get through to someone who is unable to see reason. I don't think I've ever accused anyone of being a heretic. I've certainly never said Christians are inherently amoral as many Christians - including you, Qcmbr - have said about atheists.
3/ General back slapping and self congratulatory brown nosing amongst those within this godless dogma.
I don't think I do this either. I've occasionally given a nod of approval to someone who's made a good point, that I would like to have made. But I think everyone does that, and I don't think there's anything wrong with it. You're deliberately using pejorative terms here ("brown nosing", "godless dogma") to describe perfectly normal and acceptable behaviour. I have to wonder why.
4/ A new 'leadership' within this cult of disbelief who take turns spewing hate / disdain and boasting about their cleverness and the idiocy of anyone not laughing and pointing fingers with them. I find it interesting that there is a new pied piper who dances between the camp of believers and non-believers weaving populist mockery around and is loving himself beyond belief under his cloak of scholarly wisdom (well done Shining One for taking him to task - I agree with you 100%)Well, that's definitely not me. I don't lead and I don't have a leader. My opinions are always my own.
One thing that makes me sad about here is that the professed friendliness of many here is sadly revealed as an utter sham (unless you agree with them)
I've found quite the opposite. I've disagreed strongly about almost everything with many people here, and debated them fiercely, and I still count them as friends. Perhaps you're mistaking healthy debate for something else
and those who use this place as an excuse to bully, call names and wallow in their own crapulence soon reveal their real 'loving' side as soon as a anyone dares disagree.
I think such people are in a minority, and I don't think this behaviour is confined to any one belief system.
I think that most here are still genuine, nice people bonding together well after a shared trauma but there are some real loud shouters here who have altered the feel in the air IMO.I think there are at least as many Christians as atheists in that group.
I've been stewing over how my enjoyment in posting and chatting here has gone and been replaced by feelings of hurt and uncomfortableness - I really hope that its me who is at fault here (ie no one else is feeling this). If so ignore the above, I apologise for speaking out of turn and I'll fade away. I don't need to take abusive in my free time.
Maybe you're looking at this wrong. Specifically, you've decided to pick on a particular disparate group of people who don't share your viewpoint (and not for the first time). I find there are people preaching Christianity, Wicca, Republicanism, Libertarianism, socialism, capitalism, spiritism and almost any other philosophy or belief system you care to name. Most are polite about it. Some are not. I have to wonder why you picked on atheists. You previous comments highlighted above by nicolau, show how you view atheists. Perhaps your prejudices are causing you to have a distorted view of what goes on here.
I find that the best thing to do if there are posts I disagree with is to reply to the specific posts, explaining exactly why I disagree or why the comments were inappropriate (as I am doing right now), rather than making blanket accusatory statements. Perhaps you'd get more satisfaction if you tried that.
Having been at the receiving end of name-calling and shrill attacks for presenting my skeptical views, I would say that such behavior is not the exclusive property of atheists/agnostics. I see much disdain directed at those who express skeptical, atheistic, or higher-critical views (by even the individual lauded in your post), just as some of the atheists/agnostics may engage in name-calling as well. I would have liked to discussed the evidence on Jewish cosmology several months ago without having to deal with Shining One telling me that I "deliberately ignore context," spread "lies", and so forth. I say it cuts both ways.
I know that my beliefs have evolved over the seven or so months I've been here and I've become agnostic in my views, with the thought that God, if there is one, is probably not very much like what I'd always imagined Him to be.
I do hope I haven't been rude to the more religiously-oriented posters here and apologize if I have.
I have a tendancy to get a little over-excited when I have a new (to me) ideas floating around in my head.
Edit: Having said the above, I do not take back my recent comments regarding Rex/Shining One. In fact, I thought I was quite mild in saying I find him illogical and rude. He is that all of that and more besides.
Become an Atheist or Gawd will kill you!!!
