Abraham and Solomon, To Kill a Child as a Test

by VM44 27 Replies latest watchtower bible

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  VM44

  Has anyone considered the similarity in the "tests" that Abraham and Solomon were involved with in the Bible?

  Abraham was "tested" by God to see if he would sacrifice (that is kill!) his son if told to do so.

  Jehovah, who could read what was in hearts and so really did not need the test in the first place, let Abraham make the preparations to kill his son to see if Abraham would really do it. At the last moment, Jehovah said, "Stop" and provided another sacrifice. (Again, why the "test" when He already knew what was in Abraham's heart?)

  Now let's take Solomon's great example of wisdom, the test of two women as to who was the real mother of the contested baby. The well-known story has Solomon order the guards to cut the baby in two, again an order to kill a child. In this way Solomon would see which mother would speak up, giving up the baby in order to preserve the baby alive. The assumption being that this would reveal the true mother of the child.

  Do you see the similarity in both stories? Both involve the command to kill a child in order to bring forth the true motivations of a parent.

  Also, both stories resort to a type of trickery that the Bible appears to portray as "wisdom".

  Anyone have further comments on this observation?

  --VM44
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  Hellrider

  Yeah, Jehovah seems to have an obsession with killing children. It`s all over the OT. Oh, and he has an obsession with foreskins too.

  Anyway: These stories are all about "testing the faith". How long would you go for your God? Would you go as long as killing your own child? Well, they did that, the parents who worshipped Molech. To bad the jews would later decide that Molech never existed. Well, shit happens.
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  The Chuckler

  If you think about it the Org is still doing it today. Stealing childhoods by turning them into minature witnesses with their little suits and bookbags. There is also the WTs inability to deal properly with child abusers which wrecks kids lives.
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  Scully

  Not only that, but when critical health care issues arise and children of JWs are involved, JWs are always forcing their beliefs regarding blood transfusions on a child who has no way of advocating for his own life or refusing to accept their parents' beliefs on the matter.

  I have to wonder how many thousands of children have been killed / sacrificed to Jehovah with this insane policy.
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  Narkissos

  One interesting detail in Genesis 22 is that 'Elohim asks for the sacrifice and Yhwh stops it, by providing the substitutive ram.

  Perhaps now that mainstream scholarship has largely given up the whole concept of a 'Elohistic document (E) this detail will be again assessed as meaningful, as I think it is.

  And one possible meaning, from the perspective of the Solomon story in 1 Kings 3, could be: by saving the child Yhwh reveals himself as the true Father in opposition to the other child-sacrificing 'elohim (= gods). This, of course, would make sense in a polytheistic/henotheistic background.

  Just rambling.
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  peacefulpete

  Narkissos you've expressed doubts about E before, I have not seen anything of the sort of broad concensus you suggest. In fact I've not found anyone arguing effectively against E. Could you provide a link or book reference?
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  Narkissos

  The existence of a distinct Elohist document was already denied by Volz and Rudolph. Some still use the word about "fragments" (Wolff, Smend) or heterogeneous interpretative complements (Westermann) -- which is the very opposite of a specific "source". On this and more questioning of the old documentary hypothesis (Schmid, Van Seters, Römer) see for instance Rendtorff's Introduction to the OT.
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  Frog

  whatabout those kids who got eaten up by those shebears (sp??) for calling whatshisname a baldy??

  i was watching a SouthPark episode last night, the one where Kenny was on life-support due to a muscle wasting condition, and Cartman was trying to get him stem-cell transplant? anyhoo, Cartman has a chat with Chef about the existence of God and how could he just sit back and let Kenny die...Chef says something to the effect of, if god didn't give us good things in the first place then he would have nothing to take away, and then we wouldn't cry, and god gets off on our tears...anyway, I've just completely trashed it by re-telling it, you had to be there I guess:)
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  VM44

  Wasn't the Abraham/Isaac story based upon another ancient story? but with the human sacrifice aspect of the story changed so that Isaac was NOT sacrificed at the end?

  Also, this multiplicity of gods, such as Elohim and YHWH, that appear to have been merged at some time in jewish mythology to become the one true God YHWH (Jehovah) is fascinating. Where can one read more about this?

  --VM44
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  Leolaia

  VM44....Two excellent books on that subject: Mark Smith's The Early History of God and John Day's Yahweh and the Gods and Goddesses of Canaan. Both survey the primary sources that show how Yahweh and Baal were at one time the same deity (i.e. "Baal" as a title for Yahweh) and how Yahweh was merged with El, and later how Asherah also became a hypostasis of God. The distinction between El and Yahweh/Baal meanwhile is latent in some sources (such as Deuteronomy 32:8-9 and possibly Daniel 7), while in others traditional Canaanite epithets and language applying to El and Baal are mixed together in reference to God (cf. Isaiah 13, Ezekiel 28). Moreover, the likelihood that Asherah was at one time a consort of Yahweh among some Israelites depends on an earlier merger between El and Yahweh (since Asherah was originally the consort of El).