When elders disagree....

by Lilycurly 30 Replies latest jw friends

  • jgnat
    jgnat

    I agree with carla and elsewhere on this one.

    The fact that this grown man has to ask if he can talk to his own daughter and then get conflicting answers and he can't see a problem here?
    That's what happens when people make decisions while under the influence of Holy Spirits.

    I think a very important question you need to ask your dad, lilycurly, regardless of what elder A or B said, what does he want to do? If he's making up his own mind there should be no confusion. If he's trying to please the Watchtower god or one or either of the elders or all of the above, he's clearly got a problem.

  • Lilycurly
    Lilycurly

    Clearly, he wants to talk to me. That's why he is "fighting" his point that much. I also know for a fact that what he wants is to please God in any way he can. That is kind of pityful that he thinks following the WT's every rule will acheive it.

  • blondie
    blondie
    My DA has been finally announced last thursday. Now, the thing is, my father asked the elders if it was still okay for him to talk to me.

    Elder1 says :No, she is DAed, is not living with her family anymore, you can't talk or associate with her in any way. (That elder has been shunning his daughter for a few years now.)

    Elder2 says: I think you can, the WT says if she is still in the family circle, you can still speak to her

    This is a mistake many rank and file JWs make, letting an elder be their conscience. I wonder if either of these elders share scriptures or WTS written material to backup their opinions. I wonder why your father didn't do his own research on what the WTS has in writing then confirm his conclusions using his research. I have had the same experience with elders; I usually first ask the question and see if they are going to encourage me to do my own research or tell me what to think/do. Then I come out with my research and ask how what they said harmonizes with that the "slave" says. They usually act like you tricked them. Even if one elder says one thing and another says something else, in the end it is what the body of elders in your father's congregation that determines what is "right" or "wrong." You can go over their heads to the CO and/or DO or contact the WTS headquarters. Whatever you do, if it ain't in writing, it doesn't count and even then it doesn't.

    I recommend he do what I see many elders do in regard to DF'd/DA'd family members who don't live under his roof. Put every contact under the category "necessary family business." I know elders who have been in regular contact with grown DF'd children, even riding to work with them, for over 25 years. When I pointed this out, I was told that it was "necessary family business."

    *** km 8/02 p. 4 Display Christian Loyalty When a Relative Is Disfellowshipped ***

    The

    Watchtower of April 15, 1988, page 28. "It might be possible to have almost no contact at all with the relative. Even if there were some family matters requiring contact, this certainly would be kept to a minimum,"

    *** km 8/02 p. 4 Display Christian Loyalty When a Relative Is Disfellowshipped ***

    Immediately after the assembly, the man called his mother, and after assuring her of their love, he explained that they could no longer talk to her unless there were important family matters requiring contact.

    *** w89 9/15 p. 24 Be Obedient to Those Taking the Lead ***

    While there might be a need for limited contact to care for family matters, all spiritual association with the disfellowshipped relative would have to be cut off.

    ***

    w88 4/15 p. 28 Discipline That Can Yield Peaceable Fruit ***

    Even if there were some family matters requiring contact, this certainly would be kept to a minimum, in line with the divine principle:

    *** w83 1/1 p. 31 Questions From Readers ***

    Of course, the grandparents have to determine if some necessary family matters require limited contact with the disfellowshipped children.

    ***

    w81 9/15 p. 29 If a Relative Is Disfellowshiped . . . ***

    Such a person is still related by blood or marriage, and so there may be some limited need to care for necessary family matters.

    *** km 1/71 p. 2 Your Service Meetings ***

    If some continue association that is not absolutely necessary with disfellowshiped family member living outside the home, committee should lovingly help them to understand principles involved and to comply with Bible’s counsel

    *** w70 6/1 pp. 351-352 Questions from Readers ***

    Yet, there might be some absolutely necessary family matters requiring communication, such as legalities over a will or property. But the disfellowshiped relative should be made to appreciate that his status has changed, that he is no longer welcome in the home nor is he a preferred companion.

    *** w63 7/15 p. 443 Family Responsibilities in Keeping Jehovah’s Worship Pure ***

    However, it would be well to appreciate that only the contacts absolutely necessary in matters pertaining to family interests should be carried on with one who is disfellowshiped and who lives outside the family circle.

  • jgnat
    jgnat

    This is your chance to help your dad think:

    I also know for a fact that what he wants is to please God in any way he can.

    Not quite, he wants to please the elders, imperfect men. I am serious. Ask your dad, specifically, what he wants. Not what he thinks. If the thinks he will be trying to scrum up the latest WT article on the subject. Ask him what he wants. This will be your real dad talking, not a WT automaton. When he confesses to you what he wants, maybe try blondie's mental workaround. Ask your dad why he can't just slot all his contact with you under necessary family business?

  • garybuss
    garybuss

    I asked my dad what he personally thought about the texts that describe Jesus associating with the shunned. He said he'd get back to me. A week later he called when he knew I'd be at work and left a message on my answering machine with the year, month, date, and page of the Watchtower magazine article for me to read to answer my question.

    Later, I asked him, "When are you going to answer my question?". He said, I already did!

    I was a Witness for life. I started daily practice of ritual meetings and required service when I was 7. I kicked the door on the way out of the Kingdom Hall in 1974, when I was 30. I have been around Witnesses my whole life and I have made a exhaustive study of them since 1992. I am absolutely positive the Witness people are not victims. I am absolutely positive the Watch Tower Corporation leaders are not victims.

    Victims don't plot and scheme, and cooperate. The Witness people are mean, they are nasty, and they do it willingly, gladly, and freely. Only the children are victims.

  • twinflame
    twinflame

    I could be wrong because it seems reasonable to assume this....I would think since your mother is NOT a JW that it would change the circumstances. Afterall, how can they have any control whether you are there to see your mother? They couldn't possibly expect your father to leave every time you came to visit her. After I became an UBM, my husband talked to the overseer about me and was told that it would even be okay if I had an XMAS tree or went to another church since I had not been associated with a congregation in a few years. If he can be around a pagan XMAS tree, surely your father can be around you if he simply tells them that you come to visit your mother.

    Of course, this is probably much to reasonable to be acceptable to some.....

  • LDH
    LDH

    Shoot. I thought you were telling me the title of a new Fox Reality Show. Kinda like "When Animals Attack!!!"

  • rwagoner
    rwagoner

    They couldn't possibly expect your father to leave every time you came to visit her.

    Trust me...that is EXACTLY what they expect.

  • tijkmo
    tijkmo
    There was a sister in my last KH who had a very interesting philosophy

    this is an interesting point....a sister who is not pioneering has nothing to lose by doing what she wants...what they gonna do...stop her answering,giving talks,fs......but for a brother it is different....is your dad an elder or ms or does he someday want to be...then he has to do what the elders say...problem is the elders dont know...oh well no change there then

  • Lilycurly
    Lilycurly

    Hmmm...that would in fact make for great reality TV...lol

    Yeah, I suppose that since my mother is out, they can't control my visits...I don't really see my father walking out the door every time I come in. And what about us all going to the movies, or to visit our extended family? We do that practically every weekend. He would miss on *a lot* of stuff if it came to that. It would be his loss, really, more then mine. It would be like...*he* is the shunned and lonely one.

    Also...I don't think he should be "scared" of the elders' opinions in any way...he was an ms before but he resigned when my mother and I came out. I guess he felt kind of not up to it.

    I also brought that point up, about Jesus associating with the sinners...what I remember, is a vague tip-toeing around answer.

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