by free2beme 29 Replies latest jw friends
Some of the most blatant racism takes place in Christian churches ... they are often some of the most segregated (racially, financially, and socially) than many other places.
itis,
How many Christian churches have you attended well enough to make this statement? I'm not asking out of arrogance. I ask because many exJW make statements like this based upon not very well-educated heresay or because of what the Watchtower has told them for years.
Andi
I'm a Christian, and i liked the joke.....
The Christian church is full of HUMANS, and therefore fallible.
kdn
I have attended more than five, and it is a comment I have heard from more than one non-JW Christian - including the pastor of an all-black baptist church!
Although I will admit, that it is often said - not out of disgust - but just out of the fact that we are humans as such tend to do things like this - supposedly.
That being said, I'm not saying ALL Christians are racist or arrogant about their god. But on the other hand, CHristians should not say that NONE or even "only a few" are like that - because it is not true. Actually, one of the things that began to spin my wheels of cognitive dissonance was how sincere non-JW Christians are about their religion - as a JW I was always taught that Christendom's religious beliefs were all superficial, social, and insincere. When that last pope died and I began hearing and reading condolences and words of gratitude from people of ALL religions towards him, I began to think differently.
-ithinkisee
(From the 'hoping Billygoat doesn't hate my guts now' class)
(From the 'hoping Billygoat doesn't hate my guts now' class)
Absolutely not!!! You're one of my favorite people on this board.
I just know that I made similar statements as an exiting JW for years. But I hadn't stepped foot into one church outside of the Kingdom Hall. I guess I am sensitive to the fact that many JWs speak opinion or statements with no facts or experience to back them up. Sometimes that habit doesn't disappear once the exit has taken place. Not pointing fingers...just trying to clarify.
Andi
As a witness, I would judge you for your religion, your morals, the cleanliness of your car, and your choice of hairstyle. As a Christian, the only person I feel fit to judge is myself.
I have had my "absolute truth" disintegrated before, and acknowlege the possibility I could be wrong, so I appreciate the right to my beliefs and those of others.
I think the propensity to judge others comes more from personality than religion.
Just a guess, but I would imagine half the Christians on this board would shake their head at your imminent trip to hell, and half would say lets go have a beer.
Along those same lines, I bet half of the atheists on this board judge me foolish for being a believer, and half would say to each his own.
Your statement seems at odds with the all-encompassing title of the thread "Christianity is all about judgment!"
Ever play this game called "Six degree's of Kevin Bacon?" Basically, I can take any actor or actress and by association find a link back to a movie that had Kevin Bacon in it. Well, the same it with Christianity, I can take any subject from Christianity and show it's link to judgement. Here are some basic examples.
Christ Love
Christ Loved mankind and gave his live to save us ... to be saved you must accept Christ and that love ... not accepting leads to judgement from god ... judgement = hell, eternal death, etc.
~ Now that can also work for salvation
Brotherly Love
Among Christ followers, you shall know them by their love for one another ... to be the "one another" you must accept Christ and be in the fold ... those outside of the fold are not in the love ... those not in the love are not in God's protection .... those not in God's protection are subject to judgement ... judgement = hell, eternal death, etc.
Now look, I have had this debate with tons of Christians and consider Christians to be my friends. I just have issue with them when they talk about the love of God and church, salvation and so on. As they want to look at their religion as a coin with only the heads side and no the tails. This is the truth to Christianity, it is all about judgement and what ever you state to the contrary can be linked to judgement. Not that you some jerk for feeling otherwise, you have that right and no doubt you have a lot of reasons for how you feel this way. I just can not ignore the scriptures on judgement, the examples mentioned in the Christian bible about judgement and even my own experiences. Judgement is a huge part that links to all others, so I feel the word ALL fits.
pennycandy--
GOOD response.
kdn
Gumby, for what it's worth I think such a person judges themselves as much or more than anyone else judges them. "How are [they] supposed to feel?" Hell, I guess they're supposed to feel however they feel.
AuldSoul,
I believed you missed my point. My point was , those who leave the christian faith feel judged by other christians because the scriptures definately say denying christ after having "tasted the gift" has no forgivness left.....a gonner. Christians who know this scripture know this is true. This being the case, many who exit christianity assume most christians feel the same way about them.....though some believe you'll be saved anyway ....or that you'll come to true knowledge concerning it oneday.
Gumby
Gumby,
I understand. But Christians can't forgive each other or hold each other accountable for that. It is between the individual and God.
Not that all Christians do as they should, but any who assume God's position as judge, jury, or executioner will only be doing themselves a disservice (according to the Scriptures). In the end, except for individual decisions about who I choose to associate with, it is God who judges all things. I have no business asserting that my choices based on my own personal judgments should be the judgments others go by. If I do that I will be judged similarly by God.
I can't live up to God's judgments anymore than anyone else can. If I try to encourage others to use my measuring stick to judge others, I invite the use of God's measuring stick to judge me. A foolish choice, in my estimation.
Is it possible that those who leave are allowing their brain to personify their conscience to a degree, to put a face on it so to speak? Just tossing that out for consideration. I can easily see an ex-JW believing everyone is condemnatory for different choices than the group makes, but I don't believe that is actually the case.
AuldSoul
