For those of us who still believe in God... (page 5)

Zep

The evidence given ME, dear Zep... which I have related to many... here and elsewhere. I will relate it to you as well, if you wish it.

Oh, OK...this should be interesting! Evidence huh! Shoot!

AGuest

Hello again, dear Zep... and may you have peace!

For the sake of those here who've heard it already, I will TRY to be brief. Please know, however, that while I have been blessed with one or two 'gifts', apparently brevity is not one of them (hush, ya'll!).

Although I knew I was supposed to 'partake' even before I 'joined' the WTBTS (they prohibited me because (A) I 'wasn't baptized', (B) I was 'too young', (C) I was a 'sinner', (D) I was a 'woman', and (E) I was 'Black'. Sorry, but that is the truth), it took me awhile, and after many years of praying to 'Jehovah' to let my family be able to deal with the 'fallout' when it occurred, I finally DID partake. Oh, LAWD!

Anyway, prior to that, my first 'evidence' occurred at the District Assembly the summer of 1993. The speaker (who later became the PO of the congregation I attended) was giving a 'part' which included a WTBTS 'explanation' of the parable of the sheep and goat separation issue. As the speaker read the parable and began to explain, I distinctly heard a voice that said something to the effect that, "No, that is not right, child. THIS is what I meant." And as I read it again, I understood something WAY different than what the speaker had stated. Yada, yada...

After awhile and a bit more explantion from the 'voice', it told me that I had to go and TELL the speaker of his error. Yikes! But, well, he WAS in error, so what the heck? I told my husband what I had heard (he kept trying to 'shush' me) and that I had to go and tell the speaker. He, of course, told me, "You can't do that!" Needless to say, I truly had no choice; the voice kept telling me that indeed I HAD to 'do that'.

And so I did. I went and found the speaker and discussed the matter with him. He did not call me an 'apostate' but said that he had taken his information directly from the 'outline'. I told him that the outline was 'wrong' (I may have said 'incorrect'). He gave me a 'funny' look, but didn't dispute it with me. Directly after that convention, I wrote the 'Society' with the information that the 'voice' had given me (I didn't know the source of the voice, but I knew it was accurate).

In February 1994, the WT had an article regarding the word 'tote' and its meaning. I then wrote another letter, incorporating the information in my first, this NEW 'tote' information... and a chart of verses. I heard nothing... until about a year and half later, in March 1995. The 'Society' wrote a letter of apology for failing to respond in a timely manner... and asked me to be patient: 'perhaps something may be forthcoming on this issue.' Well, okay, I waited.

In September 1995, I received the October 1995 issue of the WT, and low and behold, there was my information... and 'chart'. By this time, the speaker had become the PO of my congregation. He approached me and asked if I had seen the WT, and of course I had. He asked if I had any other letters that I had written, all of which I gave to him. It took him two weeks to return them, and he did with the comment, "Interesting."

After that I 'heard' things... and so did a few others (like one sister, who came to me because she 'heard' the voice tell her, during a Bible study, that Judas actually WAS at the first 'memorial', and in fact, partook - which he was and did). Yada, yada...

In February 1997, I went to Bethel and met with Carey Barber. That is entirely another story, but let me just say that he eventually came to know what I am... and that I know what he is not.

There is more between all that and the next thing...

One of the most SIGNIFICANT thing that occurred after that was when the source of the 'voice' was revealed to me. I was laying down, staring out my bedroom door, when I heard two voices call my name. At first, I thought I was just TRIPPIN', much like you think I am... and so, I ignored it. But they called again... and I ignored again. Eventually, they called again, and I got a bit scared, 'cause I thought... Oh, God, demons! Why are demons calling me!? I mean, that whole 'take an inventory of what's in your house' thing went through my mind. But I couldn't think of anything, and so I just dismissed it.

But they called AGAIN, and this time I also heard one of them say, "Why don't you answer?" But I ignored it, thinking I'm crazy, trippin' or hearin' demons. I think I tried to, like, you know, think of some things in my head to drown it out or make it go away. They called again, and again the one voice said, "Why don't you answer?" Well, I'm not all that 'chicken', so I finally said, "Who is this, please?" And I promise you that what happened next is ABSOLUTELY TRUE:

One voice said, "I am Jehovah", and the other said, "I am the Christ."

Okay, demons. Yep. For sure, and they're messin' with me. I was like, uh-uh, I ain't goin' there. But they called again, and the one voice said, "Why don't you answer?" and so I said, AGAIN, "Who is this, please?" and got the same result: two voices, one saying "I am Jehovah" and the other "I am the Christ."

So, okay... "Jehovah and Christ"... sure, right. So, I asked, "If you are Jehovah, can I talk to you?" And IMMEDIATELY, I felt one voice/presence leave, leaving the other one, which said, "No one comes to the Father, except through me." To which I responded, "And WHO are YOU?" And the voice said, "I am the Christ."

Okaaayyyyy. Hmmmmm. So, I said, "If you are the Christ, why are you here? What do you want with ME?" And HE said, "You asked for me, and the Father sent me." Uh-ohhhhh. I responded, "No, I didn't ask for you" ('cause I'm still thinking 'demon' here...)... and IMMEDIATELY, I was taken in a 'vision' back about three weeks to a Service meeting at the kingdom hall. I mean... I WAS THERE. Same clothes, same people... some SERIOUS 'deja vue'. And I was sitting in my seat listening to the speaker talk about 'Jesus' and his ransom sacrifice... yada, yada, yada... and I remember saying a prayer to 'Jehovah' that if 'Jesus' was SO important, shouldn't I know HIM a little better?

I mean, it had just seemed to ME, that 'Jesus', for all of his importance, was actually pretty abstract to us witnesses. And so, I said a prayer asking 'Jehovah' that if 'Jesus' was SO important, why didn't I know him better, and that if He would please LET me get to know Jesus. Yep, apparently, I HAD asked for it. Back to the voice...

Okay, so now I ask, "How do I know that you are the Christ? I mean, how do I know you're not a demon trying to trick me?" (Yes, the WTBTS had done their 'job'... like most, I believed that ANY voice was a bad voice...). And my Lord said to me that although Satan keeps transforming himself into an angel of light, he is NOT that Light, nor can he imitate that Light. Satan and demons CANNOT call themselves 'Christ'.

Well, okay, that sounded... 'safe'. So, I then asked him, "Okay, if you are the Christ, can I ask YOU something?" and he replied, "You can ask me anything." Anything?! Yes, he meant anything, and indeed, it has been ANYTHING. EVERYTHING. That first time, I asked SO many questions... including who I could tell... it went on for some time. He said that I could tell whoever I wished, but that not all would believe me. He then showed me who would... and who would NOT... believe me. And he was quite accurate... to the person.

MANY things have occurred for me since then: hearing into the spirit world and inspired utterances, as well as SEEING there, too. Why? Why me? Trust me, it has absolutely NOTHING to do with me as a person; as I have stated many times, I am a 'foremost' sinner. I hear and see, HE said, because of my FAITH. He called, I answered, and I BELIEVED it was him and he was speaking. I heard a 'voice'... and responded. That's it; that's all.

I remember asking him 'why me?' and he said, "Because you have faith, the size of a mustard seed." And I remember becoming greatly saddened when he said that, because I didn't consider myself so 'faithful', and in fact considered MANY others more faithful that me. Why wasn't he talking to them? I mean it hit me, if I had faith the size of a mustard seed... 'where truly were all these others in THEIR faith?![/I] Frightened the... out of me!

He assured me that such ones didn't have the faith I THOUGHT they had, and that indeed I, myself, only had it... because he had GIVEN it to me. All it took was me responding to the 'why don't you answer?' The rest came from him.

I have since been taken, in the spirit (Revelation 4:2 - and forget the words "the power of" - John WENT, in the spirit), all the way into the Most Holy, before the throne of my Father, and before the TRUE Ark of the Covenant. I have seen... and touched... the 'glassy sea'. I have seen and can identify the 24 elders. Let's see... I have seen what spirits look like in the SPIRIT realm (nothing like flesh with its blood)... I saw the 'battle' between Michael and Satan (both of whom, BTW, were/are 'ark angels' or... cherubs/angels of the Ark)...

And I vividly remember receiving my 'sealing' in my forehead, as well as a 'new name' (which I can see and is written in another language; not Hebrew, even). And I have been given MANY 'revelations' concerning what has been 'written'... and misrendered... to share with those who either have received holy spirit, but cannot put FAITH in what they hear and so still rely on the 'stone tablets' or law written in 'delible ink', or have not yet received it and 'wish' to.

If you need Bible/scriptural support for what has occurred with me, my Lord has directed me to direct you to:

Proverbs 8:4-11
John 10:1-6, 27
Hebrews 12:25

I used to NEED the 'scriptures'/verses, too... but now I just simply listen (Matthew 17:3) and put faith in what I hear. On occasion (rare), I have been misled, but that is because I started trusting in my 'gift', rather than in my Father's spirit, through my Lord. I hope I have learned my lesson, but I am, after all, still flesh with its blood. Praise JAH, a ransom has been paid!

Anyway, as I said, there is a TON of stuff that I have seen and heard... the majority of which I have shared with others like me, shared here... and shared on other discussion boards... including H20, where I started (I was 'sent' there; I was not 'sent' here). They (H20) couldn't handle it, as couldn't the WTBTS, and so in the same spirit as the Society... expelled me.

No problem, though, for my Lord IS recorded to have said... and did personally warn me... that I would be expelled from the 'synagogues' (public gathering places). Thankfully, the people here are jw.com... while a bit 'racy' at times... are BRIMMING with love. And indeed, they will be remembered in the kingdom of my Lord... and of my brothers.

Well, Zep, dear... so much for brevity, yes? Well, I did not lie; I do not possess that gift. So, okay, that's it, for now. I am not mad, not crazy, not trippin', not demon-possessed, don't do drugs, don't drink hard alcohol (an O'Doul's or a glass or two of red wine, from time to time); ain't on any medication and recently cut-out caffeine (gives me the jitters). Don't smoke... anything. Don't watch much TV (no time). Read a book every now and again, but nothing too heavy I don't think.

I am your regular, everyday, run-of-the-mill Black chick with a history and a past... and a true love of God and Christ. I am honest and forthright, sometimes to a fault. I love life (don't WANT to die, but...), and I love people (some more than others, but that's because some are EASIER to love than others).

I am nothing 'special'. Rather, I am...

YOUR servant, and a 'good-for-nothing' slave... of Christ.

I bid you peace.

SJ

Quester

What about the flood?

Alan F. has tons of stuff on that:

* http://www.geocities.com/osarsif/index2.htm

What about "the circle of the earth"?
(Which happens to be Alan F. again.)

* http://www.cs.rutgers.edu/pub/soc.religion.christian/faq/earth-mythology

Still a believer but not for the above reasons.
I still believe in the Bible in that I take
it seriously. I just don't take it all literally.

To understand mythos in the Bible, I highly
recommend well-known Christian author, C. S. Lewis.

* http://cslewis.drzeus.net/

Quester

Naeblis

I believe you said you had evidence. You do not. While your story is interesting it is no more evidence than me saying that when I hold a chicken in each hand I fly when they flap their wings. You can believe what you like but it is hardly EVIDENCE.

AGuest

I believe my words were:

The evidence given ME..

Yes, I believe that's what I said. SIGH! Go to bed, Naeb. It's late and you're just trying to pick at something that ain't even scabbed. You're looking for two things that are not here: the Truth (but he is not here, dear one; however, I can tell you how to find him - rather, how to be found BY him)... or the lie, and I haven't told one.

My peace remains, dear one.

YOUR servant and a slave of Christ, still...

SJ

Naeblis

*laugh* How to find him?? Keep your dead jewish god. I'm not LOOKING for him.

AGuest

Well, then dearest, that is why YOU don't hear him. Why would he speak to someone that doesn't WANT him to? Would you?

Earthling man... go figure.

Still, my peace remains.

YOUR servant and a slave of Christ,

SJ, who also adds that my Father is not 'Jewish'. Jews are only TWO tribes out of the entire 12 tribes of the nation of Israel. My Father is the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob... who were not 'Jewish'. Just so's ya know.

SlayerLayer

Hi Shelby,

First let me say that I've never really spoken to you personally, and would like to apologize for my 'making fun' of you on other threads. Really, I mean no harm and am just playing. After reading many of you posts, I feel sure that you realize this. You seem to have a very forgiving heart, and I think you are very sweet. Now for my question...

I'm honestly not picking on you this time, I just thought of something after reading your story, and I'm sincerely interested in your response.

You said:

I hear and see, HE said, because of my FAITH. He called, I answered, and I BELIEVED it was him and he was speaking.

But you didn't believe. At least not immediately. You thought it was demons. Isn't that a lack of faith? In fact, you even questioned him, still believing it was a demon. So I'm confused. You also said that HE gave you the FAITH. Doesn't that take the meaning out of the word? Does he just magicaly "give" people faith? If so, doesn't that take the work out it?

There was a time long ago, when I prayed to Jehovah also. I remembering praying to get come closer to Jesus as well. Why didn't I hear voices? Because my faith wasn't strong enough? But yours wasn't either, because you didn't even believe him when he told you who he was. If he just magicaly "gave" you faith, then why you and not me? At that time in my life, I was earnestly and sincerely searching for him.

Again, I'm not trying to pick your story apart, I just don't understand.

Slayer---May you have cheese

Zep

Well, thats a very interesting story Shelby. God has never spoken to me...I don't know why? Although, i did pray once for him show me 'the way' and a few days later some JW's knocked on my door!
Why is it you are supposed to believe and have faith first before God will talk to you. It would seem so much easier if God would just get up and talk to everyone regardless of what their belief system. He could answer so many Questions and correct so many misunderstandings. Why doesn't he just come down speak to the head guys at Brooklyn for instance?. He could tell them why their blood rule is wrong, why Dfing is wrong and save a lot of people a lot of heart ache...
But anyway, if you find peace in your beliefs, good for you. Just as long as it don't hurt no-one else i guess!

mommy

Shelby,
Girl, you are getting deeper and deeper in my heart. I love your personalty, and would love to meet you one day. Feel free to email me. If you are near NY perhaps we can get together.

Slayer,
I knew you had a great heart, and would see the good side of her personality.
wendy

In a controversy the instant we feel anger, we have already ceased striving for the truth, and have begun striving for ourselves.

For those of us who still believe in God...

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