You have all put up some very good posts. I did not ask this question because I have doubts about God, I simply asked it to get your viewpoints and to see if any of you are aware of any physical evidence according to science that would make as a good point of interest for someone who may consider themselves an atheist or agnostic. I have really enjoyed ALL of your comments and understandings and will make it a point to research them all.
For those of us who still believe in God...
by MrMoe 90 Replies latest jw friends
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SixofNine
This would be the case only if you believe that physical life is all the life there is, in which case, nothing in my prior statement has any basis for consideration.
Well, in a practical sense, that (physical life) is all we really get any control of, now isn't it? And unfortunately, oft times due to the actions of others, some get zero control of that.
JAT, you started off a couple of statements with: "I believe that God does or says..." Just curious as to why you believe those things, and why you believe God hasn't said that "out loud" as it were. Also, when destructive peoples "will" collides with God and his creative people (per your theory), why does evil often prevail? How is that fair to the "creative" person, or the innocent child.
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funkyderek
to see if any of you are aware of any physical evidence according to science that would make as a good point of interest for someone who may consider themselves an atheist or agnostic.
But if you're not aware of such evidence, why would you believe in God? Surely the evidence should come before the belief?
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Those who can induce you to believe absurdities can induce you to commit attrocities - Voltaire -
JustAThought
Dan,
I’m not talking about anything so black and white as you describe. If you will, I am talking about what could be thought of as the general trend (or willfulness) of a soul’s existence. If a soul’s general trend (or willfulness) is toward creativity/ support, then that soul will fit nicely into an environment where creativity/support is valued, and destructiveness is obviously out of step. Conversely, a soul whose tendency (or willfulness) is toward destruction is not going to be welcome in such a setting. Individual destructive acts aren’t the issue. A willfulness toward destruction is.
This can be illustrated by the following …
Imagine if all the world was an infinite seashore, and all of sentient creation was happily and gainfully involved in building sand-castles, and taking frequent breaks from their endeavors to fellowship with the other builders, admire their own and others’ handiwork, or, perhaps, dream of future sand-castles to be built. If one (or any minority) of that sentient creation chose to begin to destroy the sand-castles of others, rather than build their own, and they were unbending in this choosing, their presence ultimately would not be welcome in the community of builders. Now, if one (or more) of this company could be convinced of how their activity of tearing down others’ sand-castles was deleterious, in that it caused others loss and grief, and, ultimately, one (or more) chose to forego their prior destructive activity, they would again be welcome in the community. Similarly, if one (or more) decided building sand-castles was not for them, and pursued other activities (volleyball, for instance), yet avoided purposeful activity hurtful to the other builders and their creations, there would likely not be problem. It is only in the case of those who continue, in spite of the pleas of the builders around them, to purposefully destroy the beach’s sand-castles, that eviction from the community is mandated.
Again, it is not so much the destructive activity, but the unbending choosing to destroy, which would make such a soul a danger to the well-being of his/her community. This consistent with what Jesus consistently tried to communicate to the rule bean-counters of His time, the Pharisees. It's not the rules (the Law), per se, that ultimately matters. Rather, it is the environment which the rules are designed to foster (i.e. the 'spirit' of the Law).
JustAThought
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MrMoe
The evidence was the day I gave birth to my daughter and held her in my arms and she gazed into my eyes knowing exactally who I was. The only proof I need is in my heart.
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JanH
Moe,
The evidence was the day I gave birth to my daughter and held her in my arms and she gazed into my eyes knowing exactally who I was. The only proof I need is in my heart.
In summary: If you believe that elves cause rain, you will see evidence of elves every time it rains.
- Jan
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"People are apprehensive when they meet me. They think I'm going to eat
them. But underneath it all, I'm quite shy." - Freddie Mercury -
bijou
Moe,
My reasons for believing are all based on personal experiences. I have no concrete compelling evidence to present that would convince anyone. We hear weird tales all of the time and I'm skeptical of most of it. I believe only because of what has happened to me.
bijou
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rem
JustAThought,
So did god create certain people with general tendancies for evil/destructiveness, but did not provide an environment for them? He only provided an environment for the creative types? What is the correct environment for the destructive types that he created? Death? I'm not sure I understand what you mean by "environments". Why did god not only create constructive types of people?
In an atheistic world view, there are no need for such questions. The way everything is right now makes complete sense (good/evil) - no need for vague, mystical explanations.
rem
"Most people would rather die than think; in fact, they do so."
..........Bertrand Russell -
JustAThought
Well, in a practical sense, that (physical life) is all we really get any control of, now isn't it?
Well, having only lived a physical life (at least concretely) thus far, I really don't know about anything which could be beyond it.
But, ... I believe that there are 'indications' that there may be more to life than that which we physically experience or perceive.
Also, I believe that there are indications that the world in which we live has been designed. As a software designer, I perceive that designed software tends to function (perform a task) better than random bits and bytes dancing across a computer's circuitry. And despite whatever flaws I might perceive, certainly there is no doubt that our world functions, our brains think, our cells reproduce themselves (albiet imperfectly, ... but what is designed to last forever?). Life is based upon an supremely intricate interplay that, at least, suggests design. And, again, in most cases, and in most cases, it works swimmingly. And, after all, what car manufacturer doesn't produce a lemon every one-in-a-while.
From what I've been told, scientifically, life is known to exist only on this one planet, in this one galaxy, out of countless galaxies in our universe of space/time. And when you factor in the possibility of multiples of universes, each with different dimensional qualities than our own, the possibility that this planet contains the only 'life' existing seems to me to be far-fetched. To presume that no other intelligence exists which is cognizant of our little eden, or has interacted with it, at some point, boggles my imagination. Indeed, it is not difficult for me to imagine some other sentient life setting up, designing, and bringing into being life, as we know it. I believe that any creative type, with the power, would eventually get around to it. And, counter to the Deist view, I don’t believe that most artists, designers, composers, writers, … creators simply walk away from their creations without attempting to perfect them.
Obviously, this is ‘out there’, but, … it is what is intuitive for me, given what I see. Obviously, I cannot KNOW any of this, …, but I can intuit it. And, after all, doesn’t creativity require intuitiveness, i.e. taking what you can see and imagining possible what you can’t see. Isn’t that the way we achieved flight, space-travel, even this interconnected web of circuitry on which we now correspond?
JustAThought
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JustAThought
What is the correct environment for the destructive types that he created?
If you were the creator of such ones, how would you answer this question?
Why did god not only create constructive types of people?
As you considered, or consider, or will consider having children, can you be sure to create only constructive ones? Why would you assume that God has such power? If you knew that there was a risk of having destructive offspring, as well as constructive offspring, would you forego having any children at all?
In an atheistic world view, there are no need for such questions.
Is a world devoid of questions the goal?
JustAThought