Were there as many 1st century converts as the bible says?

by gumby 21 Replies latest watchtower bible

  • gumby
    gumby

    The bible tells us that Christians had multiplied rapidly shortly after christs death. Are the figures accurate?

    Acts 2:41 says that after hearing teachings by Peter "the same day there were added unto them about three thousand souls." ....... that is three thousand new Christians resulting from a single brief message given by Peter.

    Acts 6:7 says "And the word of God increased; and the number of the disciples multiplied in Jerusalem greatly; and a great company of the priests were obedient to the faith."

    Acts 21:20 says "And when they heard it, they glorified the Lord, and said unto him, Thou seest, brother, how many thousands of Jews there are which believe; and they are all zealous of the law." Regarding the verse, in his Bible commentary Matthew Henry claims ten of thousands of Jews.

    If the claims were true, then "many thousands" of Christians were to be expected. However, there is no evidence...that I know of that is..... whatsoever that the numbers were true. If Jesus did not perform any miracles, and if he didn't rise from the dead, then it was to be expected that the early Christian Church could not have begun to grow more rapidly until after the deaths of the supposed still living eyewitnesses, which would have been late in the 1st century. There is no evidence whatsoever that such was not the case.

    The New Testament claims thousands of Christians by 40 A.D., but the New Testament is the only source for the claims.

    Anyone have anything that might prove christians flourished the way the bible describes?

    Gumby

  • under74
    under74

    This is why the bible can't be used as a record.

  • Narkissos
    Narkissos

    The book of Acts is only apparently historical. It gives an ideal narrative of the birth and growth of a united worldwide church, starting from Jerusalem and gradually spreading throughout the empire, to reach Rome eventually.

    To this end, Luke first has to suppress the Markan statements pointing to the initial apparition of the resurrected Christ to the disciples in Galilee (Mark 14:28; 16:7). With the fictional story of Pentecost (Acts 2), Acts artifically makes Jerusalem the cradle of the universal church. It reduces the essential role of Hellenistic Christianity to a secondary episode within the Jerusalem church (Acts 6--7). It subordinates the Pauline "mission" to Jerusalem through the intermediary character of Barnabas (4:36; 9:27ff). James, the true leader of the "church of Jerusalem" which was more Jewish than "Christian" (cf. chapter 21), pops up from nowhere in 12:17. The figures are only a part of this general plot.

  • greendawn
    greendawn

    As far as I know the Roman empire had a population of 55 million at the time, so if even 1% of the population became Christian that makes half a million (or half a percent makes 250 000) plus those outside the limits of the empire in Persia, Arabia etc.

    Given the zeal of the early Christians such numbers are plausible.

  • The Chuckler
    The Chuckler

    History is written by the winners.

    A Xian book proclaims how many 1000's of xians there are and how successful they are. Not surprising really.

    How does it compare to contemporary writings of historians and other faiths? If any survive.

  • Finally-Free
    Finally-Free
    As far as I know the Roman empire had a population of 55 million at the time, so if even 1% of the population became Christian that makes half a million (or half a percent makes 250 000) plus those outside the limits of the empire in Persia, Arabia etc.

    Considering the JWs teach that the only "hope" before 1935 was the "heavenly hope" then all these should have been "annointed". I've long thought there must have been more than 144,000 Christians by the end of the first century. I find it interesting that the watchtower claims there are still over 8,000 "annointed".

    W

  • M.J.
    M.J.


    The WTS says so:

    *** w01 4/1 pp. 11-12 "The Word of Jehovah Went On Growing" ***

    Within 30 years after the outpouring of the holy spirit at Pentecost, Paul wrote that the good news had been "preached in all creation that is under heaven," possibly referring to the then-known earth.—Colossians 1:23.

    12

    Even opposers of Christianity acknowledged that the word of God had taken root throughout the Roman Empire. For example, Acts 17:6 relates that in Thessalonica, northern Greece, opposers cried out: "These men that have overturned the inhabited earth are present here also." Further, at the beginning of the second century, Pliny the Younger wrote to Roman Emperor Trajan from Bithynia concerning Christianity. He complained: "[It] is not confined to the cities only, but has spread its infection among the neighboring villages and country."

    13

    This geographical growth was an expression of Jehovah’s deep love for redeemable humankind. When Peter observed the holy spirit manifesting itself in the Gentile Cornelius, he said: "For a certainty I perceive that God is not partial, but in every nation the man that fears him and works righteousness is acceptable to him." (Acts 10:34, 35) Yes, the good news was and is a message for all peoples, and the geographical growth of the word of God gave peoples everywhere an opportunity to respond to God’s love. In this 21st century, the word of God has spread to literally all parts of the earth.

    *** w01 4/1 p. 16 True Christianity Prevails! ***

    Just as historians remarked on the astounding growth of Christianity in the first century, many scholars have commented on the growth of Jehovah’s people in modern times. In the United States, two scholars jointly wrote: "During the past 75 years the Jehovah’s Witnesses have sustained an extraordinary rate of growth . . . and have done so on a global scale."

    Incidentally, if the growth rate of Christianity in the 1st century was only 10 PERCENT of the growth rate of the JWs in the first 70 years of the 20th century, then there would have been at least 500,000 ANOINTED CHRISTIANS by the end of the first century.

    (other religions outpaced the JWs in growth during that same period, BTW, such as the the Mormons)

  • Honesty
    Honesty

    Fox's Book of Martyrs has some interesting comments about the numbers who perished for their faith.

    The First Persecution, Under Nero, AD 67

    The first persecution of the Church took place in the year 67, under Nero, the sixth emperor of Rome. This monarch reigned for the space of five years, with tolerable credit to himself, but then gave way to the greatest extravagancy of temper, and to the most atrocious barbarities. Among other diabolical whims, he ordered that the city of Rome should be set on fire, which order was executed by his officers, guards, and servants. While the imperial city was in flames, he went up to the tower of Macaenas, played upon his harp, sung the song of the burning of Troy, and openly declared that 'he wished the ruin of all things before his death.' Besides the noble pile, called the Circus, many other palaces and houses were consumed; several thousands perished in the flames, were smothered in the smoke, or buried beneath the ruins.

    The Second Persecution, Under Domitian, AD 81 The emperor Domitian, who was naturally inclined to cruelty, first slew his brother, and then raised the second persecution against the Christians. In his rage he put to death some of the Roman senators some through malice, and others to confiscate their estates. He then commanded all the lineage of David to be put to death.

    Among the numerous martyrs that suffered during this persecutions was Simeon, bishop of Jerusalem, who was crucified; and St. John who was boiled in oil, and afterward banished to Patmos. Flavia, the daughter of a Roman senator, was likewise banished to Pontus; and a law was made, "That no Christian, once brought before the tribunal, should be exempted from punishment: without renouncing his religion." A variety of fabricated tales were, during this reign, composed in order to injure the Christians. Such was the infatuation of the pagans, that, if famine, pestilence, or earthquakes afflicted any of the Roman provinces, it was laid upon the Christians. These persecutions among the Christians increased the number of informers and many, for the sake of gain, swore away the lives of the innocent.

    The Third Persecution, Under Trajan, AD 108 In the third persecution Pliny the Second, a man learned and famous, seeing the lamentable slaughter of Christians, and moved therewith to pity, wrote to Trajan, certifying him that there were many thousands of them daily put to death, of which none did any thing contrary to the Roman laws worthy persecution. "The whole account they gave of their crime or error (whichever it is to be called) amounted only to this --viz.. that they were accustomed on a stated day to meet before daylight, and to repeat together a form of prayer to Christ as a God, and to bind themselves by an obligation -- not indeed to commit wickedness; but, on the contrary -- never to commit theft, robbery, or adultery, never to falsify their word, never to defraud any man: after which it was their custom to separate, and reassemble to partake in common of a. harmless meal." In this persecution suffered the blessed martyr, lgnatius, who is held in famous reverence among very many. This Ignatius was reappointed to the bishopric of Antioch next after Peter in succession.

  • greendawn
    greendawn

    Finally Free the whole notion of that 144 000 being a literal number is absurd how could after all a recently arrived cult steeped in free masonry and occultism supply more than a third of that number (52 000 out of 144 000)since 1935 and that's not counting in that number the JWs that died before 1935?

    The WTS agrees that 40 000 Christians were martyred under Domitian around 95 AD. That's a pre apostasy date even according to the WTS. Deduct 40 000 and 52 000 from 144 000 and that leaves another 52 000, which is obviously not enough to account for the rest of Christians from 33 AD to 1935. It averages for that period to 27 Christians per year globally, a ridiculous number.

    The dubs did stupendously well providing 52 000 saints in 70 years ie 742 per year.

  • blondie
    blondie

    I sent this to a Bible researcher and he said that the records back then are very sketchy. There is a man who has written a book on the number of Christians back then, Rodney Stark.

    Does that name sound familiar?

    http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0060677015/103-7343182-0767839?v=glance&n=283155&v=glance

    He uses sociological methods to approximate the numbers.

    Blondie

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