The Apocalypse of Peter (second century AD) hints that those in hell will be given a chance for salvation after all, but states that this little fact should be hidden so that the "foolish men" would not think that they have a free pass and can sin all they want...
Hell, Forgivness, and Redemption
by gumby 36 Replies latest watchtower beliefs
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Honesty
he said WHILE he was still on earth that those who would put faith in him would never taste death....
I don't remember where I found this, Gumby. It does make a lot of sense when compared with the rest of the Bible and also what more than a few pastors are saying nowadays.
1John 5:12 says: "He who HAS the son Has life."
Notice the PRESENT tense here. It does not say that he who has the son will have life, someday in the future like at a future resurrection.....but NOW...HAS
You know as a witness they teach that when you die, you are dead. You are conscience of nothing at all. You turn to dust. They say you are in God's memory to be resurrected someday in the future. Yet, it says here..... we have this gift of life NOW as long as we have the Son. We (HAVE) LIFE.
John 5:24,25 says: "I tell you the truth, whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me HAS eternal life and WILL NOT BE CONDEMNED. He has passed over from death to life. I tell you the truth, a time is coming and has now come when the dead will hear the voice of the Son of God and those who hear WILL live."
Prior to Jesus coming the dead could not go to heaven and be with God because they were sinners and imperfect. A debt had to be paid. The debt was the sentence of death.
Jesus paid the debt for us. He did the punishment that we should have paid. When he died, he said.."It is finished." The sentence was death and he paid it for us.
Now we do not die....if we believe in Him.
We now became righteous before God because of him. Nothing we can do will make us righteous. No amount of good deeds or works. Jesus did it. WE just need to really believe in Him. That is why the above scripture says if we believe in Him we have eternal life and will not be condemned (which was death). When we believe in him we cross over from death to life. We no longer have to pay that penalty.
When Jesus says a time is coming and it is now when the dead would hear his voice and live he wasn't kidding. He had arrived to pay our price and he bought us. He bought Jew and Gentile alike. The dead were now able to live in heaven and those after him are now allowed to go to heaven because we are now righteous thru the blood of Jesus. He bought us....we now are owned by him. We are now protected by Him. It was a gift.
Remember, He came not to condemn the world, but to
SAVE THE WORLD.
Save us from what?
It was to save us from death!! He was successful.
If we really still die when we pass on, then his death was in vain. He really did not save us from death if we still continue to die. That is why 1Corinthians 15:13 says:
" If there is no resurrection of the dead, then not even Christ has been raised. Then our preaching is in vain."
It is impossible to touch on all the scriptures but I am giving you some of my favorites. Remember, I am quoting Jesus words.
Another of Jesus own words at John 8:51:
"I tell you the truth, if anyone keeps my word, he will NEVER SEE DEATH AT ALL"
NEVER means NEVER. He did not say maybe you won't see death....or you will see death until I resurrect you later. He said you will NEVER see death.
John 11:25 says: "Jesus said to her, "I am the resurrection and the life. He who believes in me WILL LIVE, even though he dies, and whoever lives and believes in me will NEVER DIE."
Hence, we WILL LIVE and we WILL NEVER DIE.
It is evident the apostles felt the same way.
Paul's says in 2 Corinthians 5:8: "We are confident. I say, and would prefer to be AWAY
from the body and at home with the Lord.
Philippians 1:23 says: "I am torn between the two: I desire to depart and be with Christ, which is better by far. But it is more necessary for you that I remain in the body."
This brings up the topic of spirit, soul and body. See how Paul wants to give up the body and be home with Jesus? The body is just needed to live here on earth It is not needed in heaven. But the spirit resides in the body!! The spirit lives on. The spirit is the real you.
Acts 7:59 tells us Stephen is being stoned to death. It says...
"While they were stoning him, Stephen prayed, "Lord Jesus, receive my spirit."
1Thessalonians 5:23.."May your WHOLE SPIRIT, SOUL AND BODY be kept
blameless."
Ephesians 2:4 "Because of His great LOVE for us, God, who is rich in mercy, made us ALIVE WITH CHRIST even when we were dead in our transgressions... it is by GRACE YOU HAVE BEEN SAVED."
Can you begin to see how they only showed us what they wanted us to believe? How they had books called reasoning with the scriptures, but only reasoned their way.
Isn't it funny we preached in the door to door work challenging people to examine their religions to see if it was the truth, but we were not allowed to examine our own!!! If we did we were labeled apostates!!... and disfellowshiped!!
Remember, you are loved by God very, very much.What he did, and offered us, was for you too. You are worthy of this gift. Don't give up. Question and then question some more. Pray and read. Read the book of John. Read it for what it is. Read it without the Watchtower glasses on. Let your heart guide you. Most of all ask God to help you with this.
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gumby
Why would God have you burn for eternity when you only messed up for about 70 years?
That's always been my thought Robdar * takes dube* How Christians can accept hot hell ...and believe in a compassionate and just Jesus, kinda baffles me a tad.
Honesty,
I appreciated the thoughts, but I heard 7 years of it after exiting the dubs, have read John umpteen times, prayed, the whole nine yards, and basically got zippola from the deal so I'll wait for him to contact me....I tried long enough and don't like anyone playing hard to get.
Leolaia,
Funny the Catholics didn't include that letter in the canon ...eh? That would have invalidated Johns idea of the second death in Revelation...a 4th century add on after much debate.
Gumby
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Leolaia
The Apocalypse of Peter was a contender for inclusion in the NT, preferred in some places over the Apocalypse of John (aka Revelation). It was quoted by Clement of Alexandria as a revelation by Apostle Peter and was accepted in the Muratonian Canon (which noted that some did not approve of it), but its lurid descriptions of hell likely led to sufficient doubt on its authenticity. The fact that it held out universalism as a hope also likely did not help it.
It remained influentual however, especially as a primary source for Dante.
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stillajwexelder
This is excellent research - I never knew any of this - thankyou all so far
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gumby
I never knew any of this
Neither do many. A readup on how the bible canon was formed is quite the eye opener stilla.
Gumby
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Hellrider
The thing about hell, is that it is not much different from the concept of Armageddon. In both cases, an actual place (Gehenna and Hinnom - hell, field of Armageddon - judgement day) takes on a "deeper" meaning. In both cases, an actual place takes on some sort of escathological (wow, big word) meaning. So when the JWs laugh at hell, saying that "oh, that`s just Gehenna or Hinnom, it`s not an actual place", and then they go on with their "Armageddon is coming soon, the time is short and the time is at hand and the time is right around the corner bla bla bla", the basis for these two different beliefs are quite similar.
Ironic, isn`t it.
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gumby
The thing about hell, is that it is not much different from the concept of Armageddon
Except for the fact that hell is spoken of in the scriptures many times as unquenchable, can't be put out, where the worm never dies, eternal, ....and Armageddon is only spoken of once with a finale and spoken of as war with blood and death as a result.
Gumby
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Hellrider
Absolutely. Well, there`s of course also the references to Jesus second coming, when he is going to pass judgement, etc, but this prophecy is not necessarily about the same thing as the battle at Armageddon. But let`s not make this even more complicated than it is, don`t wanna confuse lurking JWs...
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