Hell, Forgivness, and Redemption

gumby

Many Christians today believe in a literal place of torment/torture which will be the eternal abiding place of the ungodly/wicked/non-believer.

Here's my questions

Lets say a person ends up in hell and is tortured for 500 years. This person has been in a no let up agony state continually. Do you suppose if god pulled that person aside and out of the fire and said" if I give you another chance and get you out of here, will you straighten up".....they might straighten up?

How many hellfire victims would reform do you suppose? If they would reform/repent.....why is the punishment eternal since god is just and forgiving? And if they did straighten up, surely god would have known in all his wisdom he gave a life sentence to a reformable child of his.

Next question,

Below are some quotes of Jesus talking to his diciples. Since he knew in a short time his death would cover all their sins, why did he threaten them with sending them to hell for sins that would be forgivable through his sacraficial death? Why teach them something that was to change in a couple of years?

Matthew 5:22
But I tell you that anyone who is angry with his brother will be subject to judgment. Again, anyone who says to his brother, 'Raca, ' is answerable to the Sanhedrin. But anyone who says, 'You fool!' will be in danger of the fire of hell.
Matthew 5:21-23 )
Matthew 5:29
If your right eye causes you to sin, gouge it out and throw it away. It is better for you to lose one part of your body than for your whole body to be thrown into hell.
Matthew 5:28-30
Matthew 5:30
And if your right hand causes you to sin, cut it off and throw it away. It is better for you to lose one part of your body than for your whole body to go into hell.
Matthew 5:29-31 Gumby

oldflame

Did not Jesus tell the diciples after he had risen that he had gone to Gehenna to get those who died previously to his death that were worthy ? Maybe he was warning them that if they did not straighten up that , that might be where they would go if they had died previously to Christ death ?

Those are great questions but I think Christ had a reason for everything he said and did. Jesus had away of speaking one way but sometimes it meant another as he spoke in parables so often. We either except the sacrafice made by Christ and gain one thing or deny and recieve another. I think it all boils down to faith and I also think that when you are faithful to the Lord he blesses you with things like discernment.

Robdar

Only the fundies believe in hell nowadays. Even the Orthodox (American/Russian) think that hell is not a burning thing but the knowledge that God has turned his back on you forever. At least that's the way that Father John (may he rest in peace) explained it to me.

I'm a Christian but am not a fundie. I don't interpret the scriptures you cited as having literal meaning although I do believe in "hell" and I do believe it burns. Anyway, if you look at the scriptures from a different angle, perhaps you'll get a different take on it. I wish you well on your ~~path~~ search.

Robyn

Satanus

That's purgatory. But, you have to be catholic to go there.

S

gumby

Maybe he was warning them that if they did not straighten up that , that might be where they would go if they had died previously to Christ death ?

OldFame,

I doubt his instructions and warnings were for the next year or two only. Remember, he was only in his ministry work for about 3 and a half years....besides, he said WHILE he was still on earth that those who would put faith in him would never taste death....plus the fact he made his covenant with them with the sacraments(bread and wine) he had with them for a kingdom WHILE he was on earth.

Robyn....what kind of "burn" are you speaking of? Torture type burns?

Satanus, pass me your dube ya bastard!

Gumby

Robdar

Robyn....what kind of "burn" are you speaking of? Torture type burns?

Gumby, I believe "hell" is self induced. And it burns you. Yes, a self-inflicted, torturing burn.

gumby

Yes, a self-inflicted, torturing burn.

If anyone had any idea how rotten hell is (if it's as bad as some believe), I doubt anyone would be dumb enough to self inflict themselves knowing the consequences......besides, I thought you said you weren't a fundy yet you believe in a hot hell. What's the difference in beliefs?

*passes dube*

Gumby

Robdar

besides, I thought you said you weren't a fundy yet you believe in a hot hell. What's the difference in beliefs?

I knew you were going to ask that. *takes doobie*

The difference is that we impose our own hell here on earth. God doesn't do it. Also, this self imposed hell, that burns, is not eternal. It only lasts until we "get the message" and make the appropriate changes. I have seen people burn, felt their pain, felt their heat as they cry. They have made their own hell by not "listening" to their inner knowing. If they refuse to make the appropriate changes, I believe that it will affect them in the after life too. But that is a different discussion that we will have to have another day. Suffice to say, the hell that you and other fundies are talking about is not any punishment that God will place on us. It is our own making.

Now, then, this is only my interpretation of "hell". I do not believe in a metaphysical place of eternal punishment. Why would God have you burn for eternity when you only messed up for about 70 years?

Narkissos

What's a year in hell (or heaven for that matter)?

We (and the texts) are dealing with limit and/or imaginary notions...

Inasmuch as faith, hope and love are meaningful, "hell," whatever that may mean, cannot be the last word. This too is a very common intuition in Christianity, from Origen down to modern theology. Karl Barth spoke of hell as "the impossible possibility".

And, I guess, the same basic intuition can be found already in Paul: "God has imprisoned all in disobedience so that he may be merciful to all." (Romans 11:32.)

Golf

Gumby, is this like a miserable marriage and you ask the question, "How in heaven's name do I get the hell out of here?" (pun intended)

Golf

Hell, Forgivness, and Redemption

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