years ago I read and have never seen this challenged:
anything you read or hear and do not challenge will be entered into your subconscious with a default value of true.
Is repititive imprinting of ideas a primary cult tactic?
by hubert 144 Replies latest watchtower beliefs
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mothergoose
Yes, I agree that repetitive impriting is a cultish trait. Being of the generation that was alive when Hitler was active, and also when Russia was so prominent in trying to win their population over to Communism, this reptitive imprinting was used over and over. The World War II military who were unfortunate enough to be captured by the Nazi's found that one of the outstanding ways of "convincing" the prisoners of war that their way was "right" was to fill them with the propaganda of the day regarding Hitler's thoughts on the supremacy of the Aryan race etc.
Having been a Witness for many years, and having been a non-Witness since the 1970's, I'm impressed that so many of the people in the organization are aware that Jehovah's Witnesses are using cultish ways of getting their message across, because they are a cult, or a sect. They are included in any book you want to read on cults and sects, and the "world" recognizes them as such.
You have to feel sorry for these people--they have been thoroughly filled with the JW way of thinking and depending upon the Watchtower and Awake for their information, instead of reading the Bible. They have been duped--and now they are finding out how hard it is to get out of an organization that isn't what it says it is. They face all kinds of negative experiences, including the feelings of their families, if they are involved too. They desperately need someone to set them straight, and they need a person who isn't going to make them feel terrible about what they are doing by doubting what the JW's say.
One way that I've found to be a good way to talk to a JW who is foundering around in an organization he/she has found to be false is to calmly address the fact that the WT organization professes itself to be the "prophet of Jehovah on earth." If you can get into a discussion with a JW long enough, you can ask them if they know what the biblical definition of a true prophet is. They might know, but if they don't you can direct them to Deuteronomy 18:15-22. To summarize this information, there will be a prophet raised up, like Moses, and Jehovah will put words into his mouth and he will tell the people everything Jehovah commands him to. In verse 20, it tells about a prophet "who, if he presumes to speak in My name anything I have not commanded him to say, or a prophet who speaks in the name of other gods, must be put to death." You can then ask the JW about the times when the Watchtower has come out with dates such as 1914 which was supposed to be the "end of the world as we know it" according to the Harp of God book; or 1925 when Rutherford proclaimed that the prophets of old were coming back to this world, to help the "other sheep." Rutherford went so far as to purchase a house in San Diego, CA so that when Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob, among others, came back, they would have somewhere to live. If you doubt this as truth, it is on file in San Diego County on microfiche--the actual deed which Rutherford (who was a lawyer, before he was the President of the WT Society) drew up. Abraham, in order to establish himself as to who he was, was to present himself in San Diego with documents to show that he was Abraham of the Bible (perhaps a driver's license or a major credit card)--little humor there. The most outstanding date for younger members of JW would be 1975 when Armaggedon was definitely going to come. You might remark to the JW you are talking to that nothing happened in 1975, or 1925, or 1914 (other than the beginning of World War I) that backed up this prophet of Jehovah on earth has having spoken the truth. So what does Deuteronomy say happens to prophets who "presume to speak in the name of the Lord" and what they say doesn't come true? They are put to death! Now, of course, I'm not saying that should be done, for numerous reasons, but this point of the prophet of God speaking falsely, might be a point that would open up the JW's mind enough that if he doubted the Watchtower on those dates, perhaps he might doubt the Watchtower on a lot of other things as well.
This has worked for me, when talking with JW's who are confused about their feelings and the "doctrine" of the Jehovah's Witnesses. Read the scriptures in Deuteronomy and see what you think.
Mothergoose
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hubert
Rebel8 and Gadget,
Thanks for the links.
anything you read or hear and do not challenge will be entered into your subconscious with a default value of true.
Thanks for this quote, Zen Nudist. It's a keeper !!
Anyone have any names of authors and book references on repetitive imprinting of Watchtower material?
Hubert
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AuldSoul
Hubert,
It is a necessity in any kind of mental conditioning. Not just for homo sapiens, it is true of conditioning any animal. The conditioning starts to wear off as soon as the session is over. The more frequent and regular exposure to conditioning is, the less wear-off there is between periods of conditioning.
For the most part, Witnesses aren't fools. They are victims of subtle (and not-so-subtle) conditioning. JWs have a classical Pavlovian reward/punishment system going for every belief they want to push. What they are slowly catching on to is the knack the Internet generation has for listening to every syllable uttered to them and flipping the middle finger up at the end of it, anyway.
It really is to be laid at the feet of the Internet in one respect. At no previous time in history could a young child know so much about so many things. The more you know, the less likely you are to believe everything you are told. Of course, the Internet can only educate people who want to be educated.
AuldSoul
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DanTheMan
No question - a bit like , Loyalty to the Faithfull and Discreet Slave - Trust The Faithful and Discreet Slave; Loyalty to the Faithfull and Discreet Slave - Trust The Faithful and Discreet Slave; Loyalty to the Faithfull and Discreet Slave - Trust The Faithful and Discreet Slave; Loyalty to the Faithfull and Discreet Slave - Trust The Faithful and Discreet Slave
See how many times those phrases are repeated in WT studies and KM articles etc - a priamry cult tactic
If you search the WT CD, I believe you will find that they cite or quote Matthew 24:45-47 more often than John 3:16 and 17:3 combined.
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SWALKER
It is well known that schools go by the idea that repitition is what makes you learn things for life. Think about how we all learned the "times" tables. You also have to repeat words over and over to learn them. So when you have phrases repeated over and over again, the publisher has to be well aware of the fact that this is done in an attempt to imprint this on the brain. What is sad with the WTS is that they repeat things over and over and the average JW hears it so many times that they consider it to be fact. Take the example of the text at Matt. 24:45...it asks the question "Who really is the faithful and descreet slave?" It doesn't give an exact answer, but all JW's read that and because of what they have been told thousands of time, they read that verse and subconsciously see GB=Faithful slave.
When an organization uses imprinting of ideas to support an unproved idea it would seem that it is doing so as a cult tactic. It would be interesting to see a few books written on the subject. Glad you brought that up...
Swalker
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sweetscholar
the fact of the matter is that Jehovah's witnesses in this modern complex age are not perfect. (repetition for emphasis and importance was followed by Peter "by way of reminder", (2 Peter 1:13), under the Holy Spirit; so if that's the case, the first century Christians were "cultic" too. but we know that "orthodoxy" at the time, and the pagan demented unreasonable world in general viewd the early true Christians of the First Century A.D. as "heretical" and "cultic" also. so the so-called "expert" view that "reprinting" or repetition is a cultic tactic is like whatever. repetition of stressing and driving points home to brains that are prone to forget--human nature--is not only sensible, but wholly Biblical. those "experts" and critics should try reading the Bible (any translation) a bit more carefully. and seeing it honestly. instead of interpreting things by pre-conceptions, filters, biases, and hardened emotionalism.) but now to the ultimate point about the Watchtower and the Lord's witnesses in these Last Days. THEY AINT PERFECT BY ANY STRETCH !!!! duhh. that's understood. And some in authority HAVE gone overboard with control in certain areas. that can be admitted. but so what? the first century Christians, as is easily forgotten by many people many times, had major problems, like with church favoritism and politics and divisions and strife and sometimes an over-control, and also legalism issues (such as the circumcision issue and other things). Read both letters to the Corinthians and the letter of James and Galatians, and the first few chapters of Revelation to see what I'm talking about. But that did not make them the Truth or the True Christian Church in the overall sense. despite the silly human nature that popped up so often. (children of Adam are THAT messed up and retarded, even with the Holy Spirit on them) so then, angry and emotionally distraught people who leave Jehovah's witnesses, over hurt feelings, and a desire to be so independent, or whatever other apostate rebellious-type reasons, are just like Korah, who the Holy Spirit warned against being like Jude 11. (it would be funny and courageous of you to post my emails are your demonic heretical apostate site. just for some REAL balance.) throwing out the baby with the bathwater is never a wise move. the fact of the matter is that true Christian Biblical sanctification and separation are found today only among Jehovah's witnesses. of course, the Watchtower is not infallible in the matter of faith, doctrine and morals, as the Pope of Rome claims to be. but rather it bases its words and contents on the Holy Bible (whatever version) and the original manuscripts and original language words, of Greek, Hebrew, and Aramaic. as well as on current world events and physical facts. why do they abstain from smoking and pagan holidays and worldly corrupt politics? whereas Christendom (all corrupt branches) regularly engage in all that un-Scriptural anti-Biblical garbage? with nothing done to them? no church discipline. it's a joke. those are the real issues that need to be addressed. not wheather some elder in a local JW congregation got too uptight about side-burns or whatever. And also issues on Revelation of Temple this that or the other. yeah, the governing body of Jehovah's witnesses are by no means perfect. no kidding. but would you say that the cockeyed mentally diseased worldly pagan "Southern Baptist Convention" is really Biblical and truly truly better? and that they truly follow "be ye separate"? Jeremiah 10 and 2 Corinthians 6:17. Verses of Scripture are there for reasons. not to be so conveniently and arrogantly dismissed as of no consequence. the general principles are there. and are important to consider. and also, there are no "abusive step parents" among Methodists? or Pentecostals? Or Mormons? or Presbyterians? is that a joke? but do they ever eventually get disfellowshipped??? listen, you silly fools. please listen carefully. ABUSIVE ANYTHING ULTIMATELY WILL GET YOU RIGHTLY KICKED OUT OF THE JW CHURCH, LIKE THE BIBLE SAYS IT SHOULD BE. but that does NOT generally happen among Roman Catholics or Greek Orthodox or EpiscoPAGANs. JWs leadership judge on the inside. and take appropriate and Biblical measures. not perfect every minute. but the disfellowshipping policy, based on Scripture, tends to put a real curb on nonsense that you find every minute in apostate Christendom (Roman Catholic, Eastern Orthodox, and Western Protestant). how many "pedophiles" or "wife beaters" get actually disfellowshipped from your average Methodist church?? see the point!!? the basic point is that wherever you find Adamites, sinners and imperfect people, sons and daughters of Adam, EVEN IN GOD'S TRUE CONGREGATION AND ARRANGMENT, there are BOUND to be jerks and wrong-doers and annoying people. like in the First Century too. (CAREFULLY READ THE BOOK OF JAMES, AS AN EXAMPLE.) do I agree with every single thing that the Watcthower has said or taught or done over the years. of course not. but that does not mean that I overlook that they overall have Biblical purity and the Truth. they have the most logical explanation of the Bible out of every other group, church, organization, or teacher, that I have studied and examined. (and believe me. I have looked at MANY, and have carefully studied scores of different groups and philosophies and doctrines, historically, linguistically, and Biblically) and tried to look at all of them open-mindedly and fairly. John Frye and Jon Mitchell, I'm sure, may have some legitimate grievances here and there, (although I'm sure too that they are exaggerated and distorted in many ways, and therefore tickling to your ears, your being willing to biasly believe anything negative or criticizing of the Watchtower), but it seems that they miss the overall point. and fallen into the demonic trap of Korah. I'm NOT a Watcthower zombie. trust me on that. but I look carefully at both sides of the tale. people generally believe what they WANT to believe, not necessarily what the true hard cold rude facts actually support all the time. and of course that goes both ways. not every single syllable in Watctower publications is absolutely correct every single second. I'll grant that. and not every single elder of Jehovah's witnesses is always 100% accurate, reasonable, honest, fair, or even Biblical in practice or doctrine. and there have been some kooky unfair annoying things in the congregations. NO KIDDING. but beyond that, I'll grant very little more. none of that negates them having the Truth, in the Last Days of this wicked and corrupt world. And also, I put out a NewsLetter (that you'll probably found out more about in the future) that examines news, science, technology, sex, biology, theology, history, etc. various subjects of life. and it ultimately glorifies the Most High. and also defends His true witnesses and servants in these "Last Days". anyway, the point is that through a careful and honest unbiased examination of history, logic, nature, scienc, and Holy Scripture, the Watchtower, overall, can be seen to be sound, true, accurate, pure, and Biblical. overall. Pure Biblical Separated and Sactified True Christianity is the Truth. and in these "Last Days", as the unbiased and hard evidence and the physical facts show, is found really only among the despised and persecuted group known as Jehovah's witnesses--the Lord's true witnesses--and their "faithful slave" class. (Matthew 24:45) Dispensing spiritual "meat in due season". Not popular in a corrupt and demon-controlled world. The Bible is exalted by them as God's True Inspired Word, and the True Infallible Guide on sound living. not just in word BUT IN ACTUAL PRACTICE !!!! no flesh defiler (like chronic cigarrette smokers) or practicing homosexuals or fornicators or chronic drunks or embezzelers or cursers allowed. or people engaged in pagan and corrupt practices and customs and worldly corrupt schemes and demonic politics. clean people, overall. overall. I hope you get that point. The fact is that that real evidence shows, seen from Holy Scripture and divine reason and logic that, in the "End Times", there can be only on true Organ, Channel, and Congregation and Arrangement used by God. Just as God used one typical Ark and "Church of Noah" arrangement, separated from the rest of the corrupt world, who many of them no doubt had some kind of "faith" in the God of Enoch at the time. but perished anyway. only ONE typical Congregation of Israel, that was organized and set up, under leadership THAT WAS BINDING on the rest of the people. and ONE true Christian Church under Central oversight in the 1st Century A.D. See Genesis 6:14-18; Exodus 29:10,11; Leviticus 25:55; Deuteronomy 5:1; Acts 15:6-31. I doubt that my emails will actually be posted anywhere on your destructive maniacal website. you probably fear that it would be too much of a counter-act and a true balance to all the unreasonable distortions and exaggerated and unfair crap that's on there right now. (as I said, I'm sure that there are some elements of truth on your site. but mostly distortions and rebellious whining overall) anyway, I never claimed to be perfect myself. I just know that the first century Christians were not either. but were used by the Lord anyway, and had the correct doctrine overall. and were also "hated of all nations" and looked down upon as a "heresy" and "cult" or whatever by the corrupt pagan and pseudo-religious world around them. (and there IS Biblical "judging" going on with disfellowshippings.) Mark 13:13; Matthew 24:9; Acts 24:5, 14; 28:22; 2 Kings 23:13; 2 Peter 1:4; 2 Peter 2:19; Ephesians 4:18; 1 Corinthians 11:32 bye.
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doofdaddy
medication time sweet scholar
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sweetscholar
the fact of the matter is that Jehovah's witnesses in this modern complex age are not perfect. (repetition for emphasis and importance was followed by Peter "by way of reminder", (2 Peter 1:13), under the Holy Spirit; so if that's the case, the first century Christians were "cultic" too. but we know that "orthodoxy" at the time, and the pagan demented unreasonable world in general viewd the early true Christians of the First Century A.D. as "heretical" and "cultic" also. so the so-called "expert" view that "reprinting" or repetition is a cultic tactic is like whatever. repetition of stressing and driving points home to brains that are prone to forget--human nature--is not only sensible, but wholly Biblical. those "experts" and critics should try reading the Bible (any translation) a bit more carefully. and seeing it honestly. instead of interpreting things by pre-conceptions, filters, biases, and hardened emotionalism.) but now to the ultimate point about the Watchtower and the Lord's witnesses in these Last Days. THEY AINT PERFECT BY ANY STRETCH !!!! duhh. that's understood. And some in authority HAVE gone overboard with control in certain areas. that can be admitted. but so what? the first century Christians, as is easily forgotten by many people many times, had major problems, like with church favoritism and politics and divisions and strife and sometimes an over-control, and also legalism issues (such as the circumcision issue and other things). Read both letters to the Corinthians and the letter of James and Galatians, and the first few chapters of Revelation to see what I'm talking about. But that did not make them the Truth or the True Christian Church in the overall sense. despite the silly human nature that popped up so often. (children of Adam are THAT messed up and retarded, even with the Holy Spirit on them) so then, angry and emotionally distraught people who leave Jehovah's witnesses, over hurt feelings, and a desire to be so independent, or whatever other apostate rebellious-type reasons, are just like Korah, who the Holy Spirit warned against being like Jude 11. (it would be funny and courageous of you to post my emails are your demonic heretical apostate site. just for some REAL balance.) throwing out the baby with the bathwater is never a wise move. the fact of the matter is that true Christian Biblical sanctification and separation are found today only among Jehovah's witnesses. of course, the Watchtower is not infallible in the matter of faith, doctrine and morals, as the Pope of Rome claims to be. but rather it bases its words and contents on the Holy Bible (whatever version) and the original manuscripts and original language words, of Greek, Hebrew, and Aramaic. as well as on current world events and physical facts. why do they abstain from smoking and pagan holidays and worldly corrupt politics? whereas Christendom (all corrupt branches) regularly engage in all that un-Scriptural anti-Biblical garbage? with nothing done to them? no church discipline. it's a joke. those are the real issues that need to be addressed. not wheather some elder in a local JW congregation got too uptight about side-burns or whatever. And also issues on Revelation of Temple this that or the other. yeah, the governing body of Jehovah's witnesses are by no means perfect. no kidding. but would you say that the cockeyed mentally diseased worldly pagan "Southern Baptist Convention" is really Biblical and truly truly better? Or the United Pentecostals?? The silly Methodists or the Lutheran Synod? I won't even get into the Hyper-Calvinist Presbyterians (hi R.C. Sproul) and their cockeyed madness and hypocrisy and weirdness. and that they truly follow "be ye separate"? Jeremiah 10 and 2 Corinthians 6:17. Verses of Scripture are there for reasons. not to be so conveniently and arrogantly dismissed as of no consequence. the general principles are there. and are important to consider. and also, there are no "abusive step parents" among Methodists? or Pentecostals? Or Mormons? or Presbyterians? is that a joke? but do they ever eventually get disfellowshipped??? listen, you silly fools. please listen carefully. ABUSIVE ANYTHING ULTIMATELY WILL GET YOU RIGHTLY KICKED OUT OF THE JW CHURCH, LIKE THE BIBLE SAYS IT SHOULD BE. but that does NOT generally happen among Roman Catholics or Greek Orthodox or EpiscoPAGANs. JWs leadership judge on the inside. and take appropriate and Biblical measures. not perfect every minute. but the disfellowshipping policy, based on Scripture, tends to put a real curb on nonsense that you find every minute in apostate Christendom (Roman Catholic, Eastern Orthodox, and Western Protestant). how many "pedophiles" or "wife beaters" get actually disfellowshipped from your average Methodist church?? see the point!!? the basic point is that wherever you find Adamites, sinners and imperfect people, sons and daughters of Adam, EVEN IN GOD'S TRUE CONGREGATION AND ARRANGMENT, there are BOUND to be jerks and wrong-doers and annoying people. like in the First Century too. (CAREFULLY READ THE BOOK OF JAMES, AS AN EXAMPLE.) do I agree with every single thing that the Watcthower has said or taught or done over the years. of course not. but that does not mean that I overlook that they overall have Biblical purity and the Truth. they have the most logical explanation of the Bible out of every other group, church, organization, or teacher, that I have studied and examined. (and believe me. I have looked at MANY, and have carefully studied scores of different groups and philosophies and doctrines, historically, linguistically, and Biblically) and tried to look at all of them open-mindedly and fairly. John Frye and Jon Mitchell, I'm sure, may have some legitimate grievances here and there, (although I'm sure too that they are exaggerated and distorted in many ways, and therefore tickling to your ears, your being willing to biasly believe anything negative or criticizing of the Watchtower), but it seems that they miss the overall point. and fallen into the demonic trap of Korah. I'm NOT a Watcthower zombie. trust me on that. but I look carefully at both sides of the tale. people generally believe what they WANT to believe, not necessarily what the true hard cold rude facts actually support all the time. and of course that goes both ways. not every single syllable in Watctower publications is absolutely correct every single second. I'll grant that. and not every single elder of Jehovah's witnesses is always 100% accurate, reasonable, honest, fair, or even Biblical in practice or doctrine. and there have been some kooky unfair annoying things in the congregations. NO KIDDING. but beyond that, I'll grant very little more. none of that negates them having the Truth, in the Last Days of this wicked and corrupt world. And also, I put out a NewsLetter (that you'll probably found out more about in the future) that examines news, science, technology, sex, biology, theology, history, etc. various subjects of life. and it ultimately glorifies the Most High. and also defends His true witnesses and servants in these "Last Days". anyway, the point is that through a careful and honest unbiased examination of history, logic, nature, scienc, and Holy Scripture, the Watchtower, overall, can be seen to be sound, true, accurate, pure, and Biblical. overall. Pure Biblical Separated and Sactified True Christianity is the Truth. and in these "Last Days", as the unbiased and hard evidence and the physical facts show, is found really only among the despised and persecuted group known as Jehovah's witnesses--the Lord's true witnesses--and their "faithful slave" class. (Matthew 24:45) Dispensing spiritual "meat in due season". Not popular in a corrupt and demon-controlled world. The Bible is exalted by them as God's True Inspired Word, and the True Infallible Guide on sound living. not just in word BUT IN ACTUAL PRACTICE !!!! no flesh defiler (like chronic cigarrette smokers) or practicing homosexuals or fornicators or chronic drunks or embezzelers or cursers allowed. or people engaged in pagan and corrupt practices and customs and worldly corrupt schemes and demonic politics. clean people, overall. overall. I hope you get that point. The fact is that that real evidence shows, seen from Holy Scripture and divine reason and logic that, in the "End Times", there can be only on true Organ, Channel, and Congregation and Arrangement used by God. Just as God used one typical Ark and "Church of Noah" arrangement, separated from the rest of the corrupt world, who many of them no doubt had some kind of "faith" in the God of Enoch at the time. but perished anyway. (by the way, Noah and his church at the time, no matter how small, was proven to be the only true religion at that time history, and were viewed obviously by the world as presumptous and "exclusivist" also.) only ONE typical Congregation of Israel, that was organized and set up, under leadership THAT WAS BINDING on the rest of the people. and ONE true Christian Church under Central oversight in the 1st Century A.D. See Genesis 6:14-18; Exodus 29:10,11; Leviticus 25:55; Deuteronomy 5:1; Acts 15:6-31. I doubt that my emails will actually be posted anywhere on your destructive maniacal website. you probably fear that it would be too much of a counter-act and a true balance to all the unreasonable distortions and exaggerated and unfair crap that's on there right now. (as I said, I'm sure that there are some elements of truth on your site. but mostly distortions and rebellious whining overall) anyway, I never claimed to be perfect myself. I just know that the first century Christians were not either. but were used by the Lord anyway, and had the correct doctrine overall. and were also "hated of all nations" and looked down upon as a "heresy" and "cult" or whatever by the corrupt pagan and pseudo-religious world around them. (and there IS Biblical "judging" going on with disfellowshippings.) Mark 13:13; Matthew 24:9; Acts 24:5, 14; 28:22; 2 Kings 23:13; 2 Peter 1:4; 2 Peter 2:19; Ephesians 4:18; 1 Corinthians 11:32 bye. IP: 7QDX4H2pJFrecEVB -
doofdaddy
Not enough?
Try another dose and a good lie down.......