Desolation of Jerusalem (page 3)

Honesty

It's good to know that scholar is still lurking on the board even though his mind is owned by the Watchtower cult of lies.

I am aware of the arithmetic but you have not understood the subject. Zechariah's seventy years ended in 537 but the tradition of fasting continued right up till 519 and was a reminder of that seventy years.

scholar JW

Pistoff

No research can confirm what year Jerusalem fell because scholars cannot determine whether it was 586 or 587 but biblical research by celebrated WTscholars has determined that 607 is the only correct date.

And that sums is up in a nutshell.

Scholar submits that since real scholars can't confirm which year, better to swallow hole the WT's assertion that the 70 years was literal; just ignore the FACT that scholar will not address: that the WT's OWN numbers point to 586/587.

SCHOLAR: respond to the addition, please.

Alwayshere

Pistoff, I think he [scholar] is an elder and is on here just to cover for the organization. That's what the frauds do.They have no shame. Jeremiah 8 :12 fits the organization and frauds like scholar. Hope you read Jeremiah, scholar.

scholar

Pistoff

What numbers are you referring to ? Is it the nonsense of Desino's exegesis of the seventy years or is it Alwayshere's nonsense on the regnal data of the Babylonians presented in WT literature? The latter does not advocate WT's views of the exact reigns of those kings because the data is ambiguous so celebrated WT scholars simply present what scholarship generall believes about these regnal years so one cannot make a deduction from implausible data.

The numbers for Zechariah's 'seventy years' are equally poorly treated as the seventy years was a past, expired period with the memorial of that epochal event was celebrated annually down to the Zechariah's days.

scholar JW

scholar

Alwayshere

I am a keen student of Jeremiah and I have in my personal library several, scholarly commentaries on this most fascinating book. Jeremiah deals the apostates and the modern higher critic a death blow with the seventy year formula that the seventy years was a period of exile-servitude and desolation.

scholar JW

tetrapod.sapien

Using the WTS's dates in the January 1.1965 page 29 : Nabonidus= 17 years. Add 17 to 539=556, Neriglissar==4 years, add 4 to 556=560, Evil-Marduk=2 years, add 2 to560=562, Nebuchadnezzar=43 years, add 43 to 562 =605. The Bible at 2 kings 25: 8 and 9 says "In the 19th year of King Nebuchadnezzar the servant of the King came to Jerusallem and burned the house of Jehovah." History says 605 was Nebuchadnezzar's first year to rule. starting with 605 as the first down to 587 is his 19th year. History and the Bible agree. WTS agrees with no one but them self.

man, what are you talking about? jerusalem is still there. it wasn't desolated at all. if you don't believe me, several airlines fly there on a regular basis. ts

Desino

Scholar

Let's read what is says in Dan 9:2 "in the first year of his reigning I myself, Daniel, discerned by the books the number of the years concerning which the word of Jehovah had occurred to Jeremiah the prophet, for fulfilling the devastations of Jerusalem, namely, seventy years." [NWT]

The WTS has often used these words to support their interpretation of the seventy years, namely that these years were the years from Jerusalem's destruction until the Jews returned. In some translations (NIV is one example), the wording is inaccurate and gives the impression that seventy years had to pass while Jerusalem was in ruins. The NWT, however, faithfully retains the somewhat ambiguous wording of the original.

Daniel simply says that seventy years had to pass before Jerusalem's devastations could end. He does not say that these seventy years started when Jerusalem was destroyed. Note this leading translation:

Dan 9:2 "in the first year of his reign, I, Daniel, perceived in the books the number of years which, according to the word of the LORD to Jeremiah the prophet, must pass before the end of the desolations of Jerusalem, namely, seventy years." [RSV]

Note that RSV and NWT uses plural, "devastations." The WTS argues that the devastation of Jerusalem occurred when the city was destroyed by Nebuchadnezzar. But Daniel talks about several devastations. The Jerusalem Bible even use the expression "the successive devastations of Jerusalem."

The word for "devastation" is chorbah. It does not, as we will see, mean complete destruction. We have seen that Nebuchadnezzar took prisoners and booty from Jerusalem already in 605 BC, his accession year. Every year after this his army passed through the land, no doubt casuing more destruction, and the Bible even speaks about marauder bands from different nations causing havoc in this time (see 2 Kings 24:2; Jeremiah 35:11).

If we look at how this expression is used elsewhere in the Bible, the WTS argument falls completely down. The prophet Ezekiel speaks about "the inhabitants of these devastated places" (Ezekiel 33:24, 27), which then makes it pretty obvious that the word need not necessarily refer to places that are completely devoid of people. When we also see, in Nehemiah 2:17, that the Bible calls Jerusalem devastated even after the Jews had returned to it, we realize that the WTS application of this word is in error.

We have now seen that Daniel 9:2 gives no support to WTS interpretation. First, Daniel nowhere states that the seventy years started when Jerusalem was finally destroyed, as the WTS claim. Second, the devastations of Jerusalem started many years before the final destruction in 587 BC.

No, further comments.

atypical

Here's a brief look into scholar's thinking:

Lots of words = proof

Wow, just like the WTS!!!!

scholar

tetrapod.sapien

Your use of Babylonian regnal methodology to determine the dates pertaining to Jerusalem are hopelessly flawed because this methodology is falsified by the seventy years which proves that Nebuchadnezzer's reign could not have begun in 605 for you have a shortfall of twenty years. You need to go back to the drawing board and start again.

scholar JW

Desolation of Jerusalem

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