Vietnam War Pioneers

by MadApostate 10 Replies latest jw friends

• 

  MadApostate

  During the same weekend conversation which stimulated my recollection of "1975 Stockpiling", I also recalled the "Vietnam War Pioneer" phenomenon -at least that's what I call it. I thought I would post something about it to see if others remember this.

  During the 1960s, when the Draft started to supply troops for the Vietnam "Conflict", a phenomenon developed in our area, at least, and I'm wondering if this occurred nationwide? (I can't remember if this was officially handled in the Mags and from the stage, or if it was just another one of those things that was affected quietly behind the scenes.)

  Anyway- all the sudden (corresponding with the start of the Draft), ALL 18-21 year old JW Males became Pioneers, and moved to "where the need was greater". Those still in high school stayed there until graduation, and the day after graduation, they became pioneers, if they had not started even prior to graduating. In our circuit, you couldn't find a single, young male JW because they had all moved to Tennessee, Kentucky, or West Virginia to pioneer. Of course, as soon as they got beyond draft age, or when the draft ended, they all came back home.

  I also think there is another issue here, and that is: Who the WTS has historically considered "Ministers". Has anyone researched this to see if there is a direct correlation between the time periods when the WTS said "Everyone is a Minister" and time periods when the Draft was in effect? Of course, during non-draft times, it is more advantageous for the WTS to say that only elders are "ministers", thus reducing various potential liabilities.

  Comments.
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  Nathan Natas

  I can only speak for myself - i wasn't aware of any mass movement of the sort you mention.

  People have almost no control over the year that they're born. ;)
  as children they have little control over the political events they inherit.

  Like millions now living, I was a baby-boom child, so my 18th birthday and the VietNam war coincided quite nicely. At the time I turned 18 I had already been ten plus years in the borg - pretty craft for a nine year old to plan his draft evasion before he could even spell it, huh?

  In New York City, where I was born and lived (not fleeing like a coward to protect my faith) the local draft board was not easily impressed when a young hunk o' cannon fodder claimed to be a conscientious objector, yet after what seemed at the time to be interminable hearings and appeals, the local draft board accepted my claim and granted me conscientious objector classification.

  Throughout the process I remained in absolute compliance with the law of the land, even reporting for my physical exam before my 4A came through. I fully expected to have to go to jail for my beliefs, and I was as prepared as any unsocialized naive JW kid could be do do so.

  During this personal difficulty, I received these comforting words from an older brother in the congregation who had survived Nazi Germany: "The government has all our records. They're going to look at how much time *I* put in service, and they'll send *YOU* to jail."

  Some ten years later (still pretty craft to hang on so long after I "didn't have to", eh?) when I saw that the Watchtower was a false religion like all others, I had some regrets about failing to serve my country - many of my generation had made great sacrifices, right or wrong, and I saw myself as just having skated by. Those regrets were relieved when I read an interview with a vet who said, "All of us were only trying to do what we felt was right."

  "They say I was born in the land or the free.
  But the "Home of the briefcase" is all I can see.
  With your houses and highways you've covered the land,
  But freedom's a fable if the conscience is banned.

  So I'm going to prison for what I beleive,
  I'm going to prison so i can be free..."

  Semper Fi
• 

  MadApostate

  I forgot to ask: Did the pioneer ranks also swell during the Korean Conflict, or even WW2?
• 

  Patriot

  Thats ok N. Nates,

  "I had some regrets about failing to serve my country - many of my generation had made great sacrifices, right or wrong, and I saw myself as just having skated by."

  My father served and I was told by my mother that he was never the same. He would only talk to us about once a day briefly. He had an old scrap book in his closet that he would only look at like once every 5 years while drunk and crying. His friends in those pics. never came back. The only one that did still lives in my neighborhood collecting cans and drunk most of the time.

  My dad died earlier this year and only now can he find the rest that he's been looking for all these years.

  Everyone makes their own types of contributions and sacrifices you might think that yours is not important but to your family it was probably the biggest decision you could have made...and the best.

  "I don't know why I left, but I know I was wrong,
  but it won't be long, 'till I get on back home.
  
  I got a letter in the mail, say go to war or go to jail,
  but it won't be long, 'till I get on back home.

  Momma momma don't you cry, you little boy aint going to die,
  cause it won't be long 'till I get on back home."

  Mav-.
• 

  philo

  MA

  Just wondering whether the world-wide peaks from 1970-75 which Ray Franz talks about in the context of the society's false expectations may have been partly caused by the extra field activity of these draft-dodging pioneers. I would not know how to separate the two factors, namely, raised expectations and increased field activity, because they are so connected, i.e., dodgers may have thought Vietnam was the beginning of Armageddon or the Big Trib. But I doubt that the end of Vietnam (did the USA lose?) could have caused the worldwide ebb of 1976 (3.7%), 1977 (-1.0%), and 1978 (-1.4).

  If there were growth figures on-line for the US, it would be interesting to compare them with the world's to see if there was disproportionate growth there. Does anybody have those US figures (say from 1966-75), or know where to get them on-line?

  philo
  (I just know there's a dirty joke in this...hmmm...somewhere)
• 

  Seeker4

  This was an interesting post. I came out of high school and started pioneering in 1970 - in the midst of Vietnam. Philo, it's not quite correct to call the young JW men of the time "draft-dodgers." We all registered, faced our draft boards and took our chances. I have a few friends who ended up in Federal prison because of their stand, and one of those came back pretty messed up from that experience. It was not always the easy road out.

  But no, there was no mass movement to 'Pioneer the day they left high school and move to where the need was great.' A lot did, and I was even in Kentucky with a few special pioneer brothers in Sept of 1970. So yes, that happened. But some didn't pioneer, a lot pioneered to avoid the draft, and some went to Bethel for the same reason. Others would have pioneered draft or no draft.

  I remember getting - if I recall correctly - a IA classification (Go to war, son!!), a Conscientious Objectors classification, and then a 4D (ministers??) classification. In the early 1970's the draft lottery came into being. For the three months prior to that I had just gotten married and I was being investigated to see if I truly was a full-time minister. I had to keep a 24 hour a day diary of how I spent every minute (Considering I'd just gotten married, a lot of my time was being spent in bed with my 18-year-old wife! I forget how I classified that - return visits, maybe!!!!)

  Anyway, my birthdate in the lottery took me out of any danger of being drafted, and the investigation was dropped. The war ended shortly after that. I've often thought about those days, what it would have been like to go to Vietnam, and if I should have. I had a strong anti-war sentiment at the time, probably would have been political and a draft resister if I'd not been a Witness. Who knows?

  Some of the growth may have been from those brothers who pioneered - though many were pretty sorry-assed pioneers if you ask me. Growth came from two areas especially - the "Truth" book, and that sense of urgency that we felt the end was near. Really near.

  S4 - who has decided he will be among those men who have truly lived.
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  Nathan Natas

  hey, philo, if you find that dirty joke notify me immediately, OK?

  Yes, the USA lost the war in VietNam. The men in the field were betrayed by the politicians in Washington DC.
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  Marvin Shilmer

  MadApostate,

  I remember what you describe as Vietnam War Pioneers.

  Apparently the local draft board in my area was more impressed with those they could classify as ministers rather than conscientious objectors. From what I recall, local elders (called Overseer, Asst. Overseer and Servants at the time) would only sign papers verifying ministerial status if the person asking for it was a regular pioneer or else held some other appointed capacity (i.e., Overseer, Asst. Overseer or Servant). I seem to recall many elders would not do this until at least a few months of achieving pioneer hours (I think was 100 hours back then). I don’t know if this was at WTS direction or not, but it sounds like something they would probably do. Elders at the time were inundated with these requests, and it seemed they basically took the view that if an individual sought classification by secular standards as a minister then let them show it full time.

  At the time, in our congregation every single male of draft age was pioneering. One got his time in by taking young unbaptized JW boys to movies. Turned out he was preying on them. After the war, just about every one of them stopped pioneering. Come to think of it, not one of them is a JW today. The two I knew the best stopped going to meetings the same year they stopped pioneering.
• 

  MadApostate

  S4:

  I did not have to deal with draft issues back then, so the details were not retained. However, I do know that during the late 60s in our cong practically every male began to pioneer immediately after high school graduation. It was sometime around 1967-69 that several went to various places in TN, KY, and WV, because I do recall various conversations of "experiences", complaining about the War causing this, complaining about financially supporting the kids "down there" (including speculative talk about when the kid's "bethel apps" would be approved so that the financial buren would stop), parents visiting the kids, etc., etc.

  My general recollection was that MOST would NOT have done this if not for the War, and the fact that pioneering improved the odds of receiving the "ministers" classification.

  I am actually surprised that this was not a nationwide phenomenon, since it seemed to be so well organized in our area to help young males avoid the draft or prison.

  It also must have swelled the "statistics", as well as spread the JW message to the "hollars" which otherwise would not have seen JWs for many years later.
• 

  mustang

  A subject, if not close to my heart, one of definite experience. I was the only one of draft age in my congregation, though several others would be later.

  It was a time of poor to bad choices. Due to the JW’s scorn of education, I was discouraged from pursuing that properly. It was a waste of natural talent, as well as a source of consternation from friends and teachers.

  I felt that I would stick around my home town to see what would turn up, job-wise. I would later find out that this was a real mistake. My home-town was a dead-end for any real job opportunities. My father did have a small business in which I worked on an ‘off-and-on’ basis. But that was a trap, too. It kept me under his roof, control and obligation. It did teach me a useful trade, which ultimately made a difference. I had to ‘get outta Dodge’ for that to take effect, though.

  I considered pioneering and started doing so some time after my ‘graduation summer’ was spent. Being a small town, the Draft Board had little argument with putting me in the C-O classification. So, I advanced from a I-A to the I-O in about as soon as I could write a letter stating some reasons for the request.

  It took about a year to get my 4-D; I went to the State Board on Appeal. I didn’t think it would go through, so I was preparing for Presidential Appeal. But, the card finally came in the mail one day. I remember being out in service and stopping by the house to check the mail, and there it was.

  I pioneered about 4 years, then stopped. After a while I let the Draft Board know of my change of status. I was rewarded with a I-A classification and a lottery number in the high 200’s. I had taken to working construction. So, I waited out my year and got re-classified to a I-H.

  Draft-dodging??? NO; I was available anytime they would have liked to have dragged me off. I spent the whole scene at ‘home’ and in plain sight.

  In a more or less happy ending, I drifted away, left town, got an industrial job and started a decent career. Lots of lost time, spinning wheels and restarts, but I picked up the pieces and moved on.

  My entire life has been spent around or with soldiers of one sort or another. Strange for a JW, but true. In recent times, I was discussing this with my close friend and business partner (now deceased). He was ex-Army, Viet vet and flew guns for small brush wars around the world.

  He hooked me up with some guys that were doing Vietnam War memoirs for a book they were writing. They treated me with a certain respect and never called me a draft-dodger. They said, ‘hell, we were all doing our parts, CO or soldier’. They wanted me to write up a chapter, but I didn’t feel inclined to do so at the time. (Wish I had, now.) Last I saw of them, they were looking for a real, honest-Injun hippie!!!

  There’s a tear in my eye for guys that I knew who didn’t come back, and for some who were never the same. Later, I realized that between Vietnam and the JW’s, you didn’t have to go there to get Post Traumatic Stress Syndrome.

  Mustang
  Thanks for the forum