Doctrine on Homosexuality (page 2)

yaddayadda

Wasn't there an article in one of the mags a few decades back about a gay man who eventually married a sister, and he made sure she knew his background, and she still loved him?. He said he sometimes still felt an attraction for men but was happily married to his wife nonetheless?

Inquisitor

Absolutely, Poztate.

I remember scratching my head the first time I heard that JWs allow gays (sexually castrated or not) to exist in their hallowed KHalls. That's not the impression I've got. I've always been raised with the Witness belief that homosexuality is a gross sin and so any gay people who want to keep associating with JWs need to CHANGE THEIR WAYS.

So this belief that celibate gays can co-exist with Witnesses must be some fancy rhetoric to placate the gay community. No offense to you of course, Dave. I know for a fact that you're not the first to profess this belief. You must have learnt it elsewhere.

Wake up people! JWs don't just want gays to be celibate, they want you to want f*cking someone of the opposite sex. Otherwise full-membership denied.

Funny that you mention the whispers and comments and the shunning of gays, Poztate. That's the treatment some get for pursuing higher education.

INQ

A Paduan

A Paduan,
Who's the "they" you're referring to? Gay people or the WTS?
Stop speaking in riddles, man, if you want people to understand you!

Apologies:

Post repeated:
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Absurdly enough, it is a fundamentalists' attempts to "live according to the flesh" that drives biggoted behaviours and attitudes.

From a spiritual understanding they may have alternately discerned that it is effeminacy of spirit and mind that is degrading - but that obviously is not the case.

Why do fundamentalists view the biblical comment of "men comitting shameless acts with men" as a sexual thing, rather than a spiritual thing ?
To my mind, the wtbts exemplifies spiritual effeminacy.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Different people - different camps.

Inquisitor

Yadda2

I don't think I've read that article. But I'd be interested to note if the WTS implied that married bro was a gay man turned straight or a gay man leading a straight life? The WTS is famous for enforcing principles without bothering to state it in black and white, but merely hinting at what is righteous. They call it thought-provoking questions or the audience-helped-to-reason technique. I call it the sly-way-of-commanding-your-troops-without-the-threat-of-litigation technique.

I mean take that tale for example. Why did they mention that he was happily married in the end? Is that how they want each gay person to respond to their belief system: to finally adopt a straight lifestyle? If not, then can you think of any other experience related in their mags where the gay-turned-Witness did not NEED a marriageto the opposite sex to prove he is one of JWs, all happy and serving God? Is there one where the gay person still harbors desires but consciously chooses not to act upon his/her desire out of the superior love for Jehovah? Why not? If they truly accept celibate gays shouldn't we have heard of such pat-on-the-back experiences already?

Do not be fooled, what is left unsaid is a comment in itself.

INQ

Poztate

Funny that you mention the whispers and comments and the shunning of gays, Poztate. That's the treatment some get for pursuing higher education.

I was always part of the "in group" I never got my grade 12 education...what with the big "A" being so close.

This was the late 60's and early 70's with the chicken little thing...The sky is falling...The sky is falling.

You got to love Flakey Freddy Franz...They just don't make leaders like that anymore..

yaddayadda

Inquisitor, there are probably numerous closet gays in the organisation. Until such time as they keep it in the closet, they remain in the organisation in clean standing, whether they stay single or attempt to extinguish their gay feelings by getting married to a sister. Many gay men, it seems, cannot help having those feelings. They only get dissed if they start engaging in gay practices and are not 'repentant.' You can't be dissed for having gay feelings, only acting upon them.

It would be cruel and unloving for any closet JW man to marry a sister, just for appearances sake, knowing that he can not give her the love and physical intimacy she deserves. Only a moron would do such a thing, but as we know, there are lots of those in the organisation.

Maybe Blondie can find that article I referred to earlier?

DavidChristopher

I would look to see what Jesus says about it. But my ex-girlfriend was bi. I still love her too. She had a big crush on Britney Spears and Angelina Jolie. It never bothered me much either. I never complained about it. This is where I am confused, I have never been into other guys at ALL, but yet, I was not embarrassed Brooke was bi, or even against it. Isn't that being doublestandarded? I would never allow that to stop me from sharing what I know with someone who was gay though. I don't know what they went through that pointed them in that direction if it is "wrong". Honestly, I could see myself between Brooke and another girl even now. What is up with that? Looks like I better go ask Jesus some more questions, can someone point me in the right direction?

Inquisitor

Yadda2

I can see that it is very possible to have more closetted gays in this org than one would expect, given the climate of suppression Jws live in.

But that wasn't my argument. Like Poztate, I was trying to make a point to DaveNWisconsin who said:

The thing that cracks me up though is that it is ok to be gay in the JW groups as long as you don't have sex with anyone.

Dave is not the first to say this line. I've heard it bandied about before.

People get the impression that gays are free to be themselves among JWs as long as they don't have sex. That is nonsense. No one is going to tolerate a (gay)brother saying that some other brother is really hot. No tongue will hold back from lashing out at a (gay)sister who admires another sister's physique. Sex isn't the sole issue. Gays MUST CONFORM or be banished. THAT is the point I'm trying to make.

So the gays who do exist among JWs, don't really behave like gays at all.

Do not for a second think that the Witnesses are that inclusive!

INQ

greendawn

Many people (that includes me) don't agree with the homosexual life style but that is no reason to demonise and hate the homosexuals. They are predestined by their genes to be that way and they can't change and after all whatever they do affects them and no one else.

The JWs being an ultra conservative and narrow minded group have zero tolerance for such non conformist groups.

DaveNwisconsin

Thanks too all for writing. The only info I had on gays in the JW faith I had read about on the internet. We all know how that can be! I was reading some of the posts and it does make sense that if your gay in the JW faith that you need to keep your mouth shut about it or try to make some kind of change. When I was a young man maybe 12 or 13 I went with Mom to the hall. Not sure how long in time I was associated with the group, I am guessing about a year or two. I had done some of the readings at the KH, went out door to door, and went to some of there functions. How did I get away from them? All I can remember was there was a point where I just said NO MORE! Door to door was horrible, I didn't know enough info and remember some of the people quoting things I knew nothing about.

In the last five years I have become Catholic. I am active in the church by singing and solo music work. I know there policy on Gays and could care less. I take out of the church what I need and give back. I think anyone out of the JW's needs to set limits on any religion they get involved with. We learn that after the control they have had on us that we call the shots from here on. Opps......I think I need to start a new thread, keep the peace and Happy New Year too all who read this, Dave

Doctrine on Homosexuality

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