never seen so much hatred (page 10)

mrsjones5

So you're not sure of your salvation and Romans 4 has no special meaning for you, PMJ?

jeanniebeanz

yes i do he did with the jews he had a people for his name.and i still beleave that today.there can be only one way to serve God surley

You know, and just a thought here, but...

If there is only one way to serve God, then, why did God choose Job as an example of faithfulness to Himself at a time when he 'had a named people' and a definite bloodline established leading to the Christ? Job was not an Israelite and no where near that bloodline since he was "an Oriental"...

Like I said.... just a thought...

J

AuldSoul

if you no more about the bible than the wittnesses then go straght a head and speak.but dont act like a spoiled brat calling people names.

Calling people spoiled brats to encourage them not call people names seems rather ... oxymoronic ... don't you think?

If a religious organization (any religious organization) is organized like a cult, and operates like a cult, and adherents engage many in practices that are common in cults, it isn't name calling to say that organization is a cult and that the followers are at best cultish and at worst cultists. That is correctly defining the religious organization being spoken of.

hmmmmm i dont rememeber the governing body saying there christ.does that mean its not them?ive never heard then say im the christ have you lady of many words

Korah, Dathan, and Abiram didn't say they were Moses, either. They just wanted the position God had not given them.

ok let me ask you do you beleave god has a group of people like he did with the jews?

No. Not an organized group. No more than he did in 1726 or 1582, or 1314, or 876, or 630. Now, if you can find and tell me which organization God was using (as a group) for those years I will concede that the JW teaching that he MUST have a group may have some validity. Otherwise, I have to stick by what Jesus said.

John 4:21-24 — Jesus said to her: “Believe me, woman, The hour is coming when neither in this mountain nor in Jerusalem will YOU people worship the Father. YOU worship what YOU do not know; we worship what we know, because salvation originates with the Jews. Nevertheless, the hour is coming, and it is now, when the true worshipers will worship the Father with spirit and truth, for, indeed, the Father is looking for suchlike ones to worship him. God is a Spirit, and those worshiping him must worship with spirit and truth.”

Matthew 18:20 — “For where there are two or three gathered together in my name, there I am in their midst.”

In either of these, I see no need for a specific group to attach to. I'm not trying to scare you off, but you were asking for my personal views. I also see no indication of the Ethiopian Eunuch needing to preach before baptism, swear allegiance to a corporation, or move his publisher's record card to a new congregation after his baptism when he returned to Ethiopia. I don't recall Paul having to adhere to an outline provided by Jerusalem as he journeyed from city to city, and I'm pretty sure the speech on the Aereopagus was not a manuscript talk.

I have a few questions for you, PMJ:

(1) When have Jehovah's Witnesses ever been persecuted for bearing the name of Christ Jesus? Please name the year and circumstance, plus the reference you drew it from. I scoured the Watchtower Library CD ROM and can't find a single instance except for certain places where they apply the SCRIPTURE that says that would happen. The actual account, though, usually bears out that they were persecuted for being Jehovah's Witnesses, not Jesus'. However, if you can find one, I will gladly eat my words.

(2) What authority does the Faithful and Discreet Slave have over the Governing Body?

(3) Can you tell me for sure who is and who is not part of the Faithful and Discreet Slave, and what do you use as your criteria for identifying the "brothers of Christ?"

(4) Would it bother you if the Watchtower Society already knows, without any doubt whatsoever, that 607 BC was not when the temple of Jerusalem was destroyed, and that it doesn't need to be for the fulfillment of the "70 years"? Because, Jeremiah 27:1-14 makes it perfectly clear that no destruction had to take place if only Zedekiah would yield to Babylon's authority, and Jeremiah 25 (a prophecy given to Jehoiakim in the first regnal year of Nebuchadnezzar) says:

Jeremiah 25:8-14 — “Therefore this is what Jehovah of armies has said, ‘“For the reason that YOU did not obey my words, here I am sending and I will take all the families of the north,” is the utterance of Jehovah, “even [sending] to Neb·u·chad·rez´zar the king of Babylon, my servant, and I will bring them against this land and against its inhabitants and against all these nations round about; and I will devote them to destruction and make them an object of astonishment and something to whistle at and places devastated to time indefinite. And I will destroy out of them the sound of exultation and the sound of rejoicing, the voice of the bridegroom and the voice of the bride, the sound of the hand mill and the light of the lamp. And all this land must become a devastated place, an object of astonishment, and these nations will have to serve the king of Babylon seventy years.”’
“‘And it must occur that when seventy years have been fulfilled I shall call to account against the king of Babylon and against that nation,’ is the utterance of Jehovah, ‘their error, even against the land of the Chal·de´ans, and I will make it desolate wastes to time indefinite. And I will bring in upon that land all my words that I have spoken against it, even all that is written in this book that Jeremiah has prophesied against all the nations. For even they themselves, many nations and great kings, have exploited them as servants; and I will repay them according to their activity and according to the work of their hands.’”

The Bible never says that Babylon would have to destroy the Temple for the 70 years to be fulfilled, so there is no need to force that event into the prophecy regarding the 70 years. In Zedekiah's reign the 70 years had already started according to Jeremiah 27:1-14 and the destruction would only happen IF they failed to yield.

But don't take my word for it:

Isaiah's Prophecy—Light for All Mankind I, chap. 19, p. 253, par. 21, Jehovah Profanes the Pride of Tyre
21 Isaiah goes on to prophesy: “It must occur in that day that Tyre must be forgotten seventy years, the same as the days of one king.” (Isaiah 23:15a) Following the destruction of the mainland city by the Babylonians, the island-city of Tyre will “be forgotten.” True to the prophecy, for the duration of “one king”—the Babylonian Empire—the island-city of Tyre will not be an important financial power. Jehovah, through Jeremiah, includes Tyre among the nations that will be singled out to drink the wine of His rage. He says: “These nations will have to serve the king of Babylon seventy years.” (Jeremiah 25:8-17, 22, 27) True, the island-city of Tyre is not subject to Babylon for a full 70 years, since the Babylonian Empire falls in 539 B.C.E. Evidently, the 70 years represents the period of Babylonia’s greatest domination—when the Babylonian royal dynasty boasts of having lifted its throne even above “the stars of God.” (Isaiah 14:13) Different nations come under that domination at different times. But at the end of 70 years, that domination will crumble. What will then happen to Tyre?

Even "celebrated Watchtower scholars" know the truth about the 70 years. They ended when Babylon's dominion ended, in 539 BC. They started in 609 BC, when Babylong brought Assyria (the former world power) under its dominion.

A total of eight elders, one CO, and my mother (she was baptized at age 8) could not explain this outright deceit to me. I disassociated myself last week.

I hope you stick around, but I am not being a brat by railing out against an organization that tells my friends and family not to talk to me just because the organization knows their doctrines aren't based on the Bible and that their activities are gross hypocrisy.

Respectfully,
AuldSoul

Honesty

no i dont beleve im saved

So, does this mean that you don't believe God's Word?

Eph 1:7-8 In Him we have redemption through His blood, the forgiveness of our trespasses, according to the riches of His grace that He lavished on us with all wisdom and understanding.

1 Cor 1:18 For to those who are perishing the message of the cross is foolishness, but to us who are being saved it is God’s power.

i beleave it will be how you live your life when arrmegedon comes.

Can you show me in God's Word where that is stated?

greendawn

That's the way to go Auld and if they can't stand criticism and instead expel those who criticise them on sound biblical or historical grounds, that makes them the evil slave, that tries to pass himself off as the FDS. They ill treat their fellow servants.

PMJ

very intresting thank you for that.you see i feel im a preety honest person.my belifs ar that jehovah is God and that jesus is his son.now if i talk to God with that in mind belving that.i beleave im talking to the right person.now this is were it gets confusing.if some one who claims to be a belever in christ and GOD but at the same time beleves there both allmighty.then thats were i find it diffcult to beleave.the jews had to beleave in one God the nations beleaved in many Gods and that wasnt accseptble to jehovah thats why they were not his people.thats my argument

Honesty

Me thinks information overload is about to take place.

mrsjones5

very intresting thank you for that.you see i feel im a preety honest person.my belifs ar that jehovah is God and that jesus is his son.now if i talk to God with that in mind belving that.i beleave im talking to the right person.now this is were it gets confusing.if some one who claims to be a belever in christ and GOD but at the same time beleves there both allmighty.then thats were i find it diffcult to beleave.the jews had to beleave in one God the nations beleaved in many Gods and that wasnt accseptble to jehovah thats why they were not his people.thats my argument

What?!

DavidChristopher

Nicely put Legolas!!!! that is what I came up with too!!

ballistic

PMJ, thanks for sharing your story. You talk about the mistakes the organisation make, and like everyone says, they're only human. I want to say one thing. I know people who have lived their whole lives saying that. They were born since 1914. Have grown old, and died, unfortunately saying that, "they are only human, and can make mistakes, ... but it is coming soon."

never seen so much hatred

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