Hi All ! I have been going around and around on this one. I was raised JW . I am no longer practicing and was always taught by the watchtower Abadon(Apollyon) is Christ himself. Is this true? Many Occultists say it is the devil. This seems pretty big that we get it straight.
Help! I want a Christian person to tell me who Abadon is in Rev.9:11?
by amommy 27 Replies latest watchtower beliefs
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stillajwexelder
My Mom always told me I was abaddon
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ozziepost
Does it have to be anyone at all?
You're looking to identify each image within the Revelation but that isn't the way christian commentators understand it. It's what they call apocalyptic.
Mrs Ozzie and I were in discussion with an academic about this and he said, "Revelation? - Jesus wins!"
Strangely you may think that has halped me no end.
Don't make the mistake of going down the same track as the dubs who seek to identify every little word in the Revelation. It wasn't written that way.
So, 'who' is Abaddon? A personification of destruction.
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Satanus
http://www.preteristarchive.com/Preterism/chilton-david_pp_01.html
St. John goes on to identify the king of the demons, the "angel of the Abyss,” giving his name in both Hebrew (Abaddon) and Greek (Apollyon) — one of many indications of the essentially Hebraic character of the Revelation. The words mean Destruction and Destroyer; “Abaddon” is used in the Old Testament for the realm of the dead, the "place of destruction” (Job 26:6; 28:22; 31:12; Psalm 88:11; Proverbs 15:11; 27:20). St. John thus presents Satan as the very personification of death itself (cf. 1 Corinthians 10:10; Hebrews 2:14).
Clearly, for Satan’s entire host of destroyers to be let loose upon the Jewish nation was a hell on earth indeed. And yet St. John tells us that this outbreak of demons in the land is only “the first Woe.” Even greater horrors lie ahead.
S Ps, i'm not christian, but the guy who wrote that, david chilton, is a preterist christain.
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144001
Abaddon? He's an intelligent stoner type, who graces this board with his good sense.
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bjc2read
Hi Amommy:
Just as you have surmised, No Jesus is NOT the pre-supposed "Abaddon" of Revelation 9th chapter, as the WTS has taught for years. So you are correct on that viewpoint.
However, if you would like a more, indepth "scriptural" answer to your question about the identity of "Abaddon," please click the following link:
http://www.crossingeuphrates.com/forum/guestbook.php
In case you are wondering, this link goes to a "guestbook" on our discussion board where you do not have to join anything officially. Just post your question (anonymously) and someone will be happy to reply and give you a biblical answer to your question. No problem.
Hope this helps.
bjc
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gumby
He's the one on the left with the little dinger.
Gumby
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peacefulpete
The WT flip flopped on this one as well. Somehwhere on this site there was a post that layed it out but without a search function I could not find it. This issue is over the idea of having another character "Abbaddon" who acts as an archangel or the orthodox depiction of Satan as master of Hell. The WT cannot have that.
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Leolaia
According to the commentary by Aune (imho the best commentary written on Revelation), this angel of the abyss is mentioned in earlier Jewish literature. In 4Q280 (one of the Dead Sea Scrolls), God and his holy angels are blessed while Satan (referred to as Belial and Melkiresha) and his evil angels are cursed. Abaddon is clearly designated as on the side of Belial (if not Belial himself) and is cursed:
"Cursed are you, O Melkiresha, for all the purposes of your guilty desires. May God appoint you as an object of terror in the hands of those who wreak vengeance...And cursed is the Wicked One in all the purposes of his dominion, and damned are all the sons of Belial for all their iniquities of office until their annihilation...And cursed are you angel of the Pit, and the spir[its of Aba]ddon (w-rw[ch h-'b]dwn) for all purposes of your guilty desire" (4Q 280 1:1-2, 10:2).
He is also mentioned in the Targum of Job in the Dead Sea Scrolls (4Q157). Of course in the OT, Abaddon is used as a name for Sheol itself (cf. Proverbs 15:11, Job 26:6, 28:22, 31:12), and is personified in Job. The idea that Abaddon is the name of an angel derives from its personification. Note that even in 4Q280, Abaddon could either be a place or a person. Ascension of Isaiah 10:9 refers to the postmortem descent of Jesus "as far as the angel who (is) in Sheol, but you shall not go as far as Perdition (= Abaddon)". In Greek, the equivalent of Abaddon is apóleia "destruction" (cf. Proverbs 15:11 LXX, Psalm 87:12 LXX), and it is noteworthy that the antichrist figure in 2 Thessalonians 2:3 is referred to as "son of Perdition" (ho huios tés apóleias), just as 4Q280 refers to "the sons of Belial" and "the spirits of Abaddon". The detail about Abaddon being the "king" (basileus) of the locusts in Revelation 9:11 is another detail that Abaddon is to be identified with the Devil. This is because this text is an allusion to Amos 7:1 LXX which states: "Thus the Lord showed me and behold, the offspring of locusts were coming in the morning, and behold, one locust was the king (basileus) of Gog". In Ezekiel, Gog is designated as the force of evil from the North that comes to destroy the holy city, and this idea is picked up in Revelation 20:7-8 in which Satan is depicted as gathering Gog and Magog for the final battle. As for the name Apollyon, it is derived from Greek apollunai "to destroy", and Aeschylus, Euripides, and other ancient writers also tried to derive the name "Apollo" from this verb (tho it is etymologically unrelated). Aune suggests that, like most of Revelation, an allusion to Nero is intended by this name, since Nero is identified with Belial in related Christian literature (cf. the apocalyptic fragment in the Ascension of Isaiah) and Nero claimed to have a "special relationship with Apollo" (Volume 3, p. 535). In this sense, the Nero redivivus myth of Nero as the leader of the Parthian army set to destroy Rome (clearly latent in the conception of the army of locusts) borrows from the other Jewish concept of Gog of Magog bringing his hoardes to wage war on their enemies.
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Legolas
After I left I bought a Life Application Study Bible.
In it at Rev.9:11 it says..'The locust-demons have a leader whose name in Hebrew and in Greek means destroyer. It may be a play on words by John to show that those who worshiped the great god Apollo worshiped only a demon.'