abaddonapollyon...The explanation given by the Society is problematic on several counts. First of all, it assumes that the angel that has the key of the abyss (9:1) is to be identified with (1) Jesus on the basis of 1:18 and (2) Apollyon in 9:11. Nowhere does Revelation designate Jesus himself as an angel; rather the angels are the ones deligated with the duties of unleashing the woes and plagues (cf. 7:1-3). And nowhere does the text identify the angel who opens the abyss with the angel that rules over the demonic locusts that rise up from the abyss. Rather, the implication is that Apollyon, being the angel of abyss, rises up with the locusts once the abyss is opened. Neither is it cogent to assume that the locusts are God's servants because they are set loose by an angel of God. The opening of the abyss, of course, also sets loose the Beast (11:7, 17:8), would he be a servant of God as well? Rather, what the servant of God does is unleash these forces of evil to bring the world to its end.
Help! I want a Christian person to tell me who Abadon is in Rev.9:11?
by amommy 27 Replies latest watchtower beliefs
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peacefulpete
Exellent posts again Leolaia. Was it you that posted the WT flip flop on the identification?
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hamsterbait
leo -
I love your Avatar, its so purty.
HB
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Will Power
Just in case there are any JWs who are unsure of the role the watchtower has for each and everyone - in abidance with the oath to uphold all unique teachings ..... under the leadership of ???? (thanks for the clarification Leo)
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Did you notice, though, how similar this cavalry is to the locusts that preceded it? The locusts were like horses; in the cavalry there are horses. Both, then, are involved in theocratic warfare.
8 Both the locusts and the cavalry share in Jehovah's work of judgment. The locusts emerged from smoke that portended woe and destructive fire for Christendom; from the mouths of the horses, there issue forth fire, smoke, and sulfur. The locusts had breastplates of iron, signifying that their hearts were protected by unbending devotion to righteousness; the cavalry wear breastplates colored red, blue, and yellow, reflecting the fire, smoke, and sulfur of the lethal judgment messages that gush from the mouths of the horses. (Compare Genesis 19:24, 28; Luke 17:29, 30.) The locusts had tails like scorpions for tormenting; the horses have tails like serpents for killing! It seems that what was started by the locusts is to be pursued by the cavalry with greater intensity to a completion.
9 So, what does this cavalry symbolize? Just as the anointed John class started the trumpetlike proclamation of Jehovah's judgment of divine vengeance against Christendom, with authority to 'sting and hurt,' so we would expect the same living group to be used in the 'killing,' that is, in making known that Christendom and its clergy are completely dead spiritually, cast off by Jehovah and ready for "the fiery furnace" of everlasting destruction. Indeed, all of Babylon the Great must perish. (Revelation 9:5, 10; 18:2, 8; Matthew 13:41-43) Preliminary to her destruction, however, the John class uses "the sword of the spirit, that is, God's word," in exposing Christendom's deathlike condition. The four angels and the riders of the horses give direction to this figurative killing of "a third of the men." (Ephesians 6:17; Revelation 9:15, 18) This indicates proper organization and theocratic direction under the oversight of the Lord Jesus Christ as the awesome band of Kingdom proclaimers charges forth to the battle.
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*** Revelation -- Its Grand Climax At Hand! (book, 1988) chap.23 pp.148-154 The Second Woe--Armies of Cavalry ***
This quote courtesy of one of the many mirror sites available for research.
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peacefulpete
Thats her 10 year old niece you perv.
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Leolaia
PP....Yeah, they originally claimed that Apollyon is Satan (see the 1917 Finished Mystery book), but later changed their minds and identified him with Jesus. This was likely motivated by a desire to identify the locusts with Bible Students/JWs, as the Society currently does (obviously they wouldn't want to claim that Satan leads them in theocratic warfare).
Within the context of Revelation, the locusts represent the Parthian forces from beyond the Euphrates gathered together by the Beast and his demons (compare with 9:14-15 and 16:12-14, as well as with the parallel thought in 1 Enoch 56:6-7 and Sibylline Oracles 5:434-439).
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truth about the last days
All i know is that Rev 20;1 speaks of an angel having the key to the abyss seizeing saten and throwing him in. Seeing that all other angels are equal to saten in creation and strength, the only stronger one to seize him would be Jesus himself. Verse 3 does state that he hurled him in. I am sorry to say to every one that Abaddon is Jesus, as he responsable to hold the keys to the abyss, and has the authority over it. Jesus has been called other names, such as Michael. If it is true that Abaddon means Destroyer, then do we all not believe that on earth Jesus will return and that he will destroy all the wickedness and evildoers soon? See also Rev 1:18. Keith
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Leolaia
I am sorry to say to every one that Abaddon is Jesus, as he responsable to hold the keys to the abyss
Please read what I wrote in my previous post....Where does it say that Abaddon is holding the key to the abyss? It doesn't say this at all. Rather, it only says that the locusts released from the abyss have Abaddon, the angel of the abyss, as their king. Since Abaddon is the angel of the abyss itself, he is released with the locusts when the abyss is opened.
Morover, as I said before, angels were delegated the tasks of unleashing the woes (cf. 7:1-3), just because Jesus holds the "keys of death and Hades" (1:18) doesn't mean that he must be identified the angel who opens the abyss. Thus, it is clearly stated that the angel in 9:1 "was given" (edothé autó) the key. Who gave him the key? Revelation 1:18 would suggest that Jesus gave the angel the key, since he is the one holding the keys of Hades.
Seeing that all other angels are equal to saten in creation and strength, the only stronger one to seize him would be Jesus himself.
There is no indication at all that the angels are equal in power to Satan or that only Jesus would have been able to cast Satan into the abyss. Rather, the angel Michael and his hosts already defeated Satan in ch. 12, and the powers of Satan through the Beast and his hoardes are destroyed in 19:19-21. He was already defeated by the time he is imprisoned in the abyss.
Jesus has been called other names, such as Michael.
No, he is not called Michael in Revelation.
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amommy
First of all hats off to LEO ...always on her Game!!!!!!!!!! Wish more people studied like this.
Ok, I've been giving this even more thought (maybe to Much) I woke up at 4am last night and this thought came to me , What if the WT peoples who obviously have proven to lack god's holy spirit with all the false predictions, what if they are teaching that Ababon is Jesus so that when Armagedon comes maybe just maybe ,people will literally carry a mark to distinguish them . If they taught witnesses ,this false conclusion with satanic influence. What if they got WT peoples to carry a sign on them with the name marking them in the last days as Abadon or Apollyon then they unknowingly would be marked for destruction as really on the side of Satan the devil. That would be the biggest Jim Jones, Waco etc.... Ever! Scarey!!!!!!
Ok! Also all who have'nt read the book of John closely needs to again maybe twice. " No part of this world means no part of the world of Fleshly Men so, when you believe in Christ and are born of Spirit You are then no Part of this World!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! " No one can enter the kingdom of God until they are born of Spirit. I have been learning alot these last three weeks. Thanks for all the help!
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Leolaia
"Where does it say that Abaddon is holding the key to the abyss? " Right here: Revelation 1:18 - " 18 and the living one; and I became dead, but, look! I am living forever and ever, and I have the keys of death and of Ha´des."
There is no Abaddon mentioned in Revelation 1:18. Neither is Abaddon described as holding the key of the abyss in ch. 9. You are confusing the angel that opens the abyss in v. 1 with the angel that rules over the locusts in v. 11.
So why the heck would he give it to a wicked evil, nefarious Satanic creature?
Where do you get the idea that he gives the key to a satanic nefarious creature? The key is given to the wonderful loyal godly angel that opens the abyss. The angel of the abyss that emerges with the locusts is entirely different, and he is not said to be holding the key of the abyss.
He has BEEN GIVEN THE KEY's, one who lives for ever and ever...!
Actually the wording in Revelation 1:18 is that Jesus already "holds" or "has" (ekhó) the keys. It is the angel that is later "given" (edothé) the key to the abyss.