Parousia and invisibe presence (page 2)

Hellrider

Ok, thanks Narkissos. I assume this is why some versions translate it "coming".

Hm, but this is a bit complicated...I kind of understand why JWs can`t see this.

TD

During the years following the Great Disapointment of 1844, Barbour had reworked Miller's calculations and come up with the date 1873.

When 1873 came and went, they extended the date to the fall of 1874 through an apeal to ancient calendaring systems. (An all too familiar dodge employed by end-times speculators.) When the fall of 1874 passed without a visible return, B.W. Keith, a reader of The Midnight Cry wrote Barbour and suggested that perhaps Christ had actually returned only invisibly. He based this idea on Benjamin Wilson's Emphatic Diaglott, a new (At the time) interlinear translation of J. J. Griesbach's recension of the NT. Wilson translated parousia as "Presence." Barbour found this solution attractive, because he was unwilling to abandon his intricate chronology.

Barbour managed to sell the idea that Christ had returned invisibly in 1874 to Russell during the first half of the year 1876. Russell believed and taught this doctrine for the rest of his life. Jehovah's Witnesses themselves did not substitute the year 1914 for the year 1874 until the early 1930's

Hellrider

Barbour managed to sell the idea that Christ had returned invisibly in 1874 to Russell during the first half of the year 1876. Russell believed and taught this doctrine for the rest of his life. Jehovah's Witnesses themselves did not substitute the year 1914 for the year 1874 until the early 1930's

Yes, I knew that. But now that I come to think of it: Holy smoke, Miller and Russel and all those old, dead guys, must have had a great time...Sitting there, making calculations of Bible passages and pyramid measures - all the while thinking they were "annointed" or "special" or whatever, and seeing one prediction after the other come and go...and never even once thinking..."hm...could I be a false prophet?". The happiest people that ever lived, were the most self-delusional ones, I think...

greendawn

TD that was a good piece of early JW history. More specifically Barbour after the 1844 disappointment went to work as a miner in Australia and it was while returning to the USA around 1860 that he worked out the 1873 date.

Russell swallowed whole his invisible presence excuse and was expecting 1914 to be the start of the visible presence ie armageddon a historical fact that was later distorted by Franz and Knorr.

zen nudist

invisible presence - see emporer's new clothes.

Hellrider

LoL @ zen nudist!

Elsewhere

Here is the reason JWs MUST believe Jesus returned invisibly: The teach that he returned in 1914

If Jesus was really supposed to return in the flesh and visible to everyone, that would mean that the whole 1914 thing, the FDS, the preaching work, EVERYTHING is wrong and a blatant lie.

This is also directly linked to why they believe that Jesus was not resurrected in the flesh and instead teach that he was a spirit who "faked" flesh for Thomas who wanted to touch Jesus' "fake" wounds in his hands.

Jesus said he would return the same way he ascended to heaven. If he was resurrected in the flesh then he also ascended to heaven in the flesh, and therefore visible to everyone.

"And He said to them, "Why are you troubled, and why do doubts arise in your hearts? 39"See My hands and My feet, that it is I Myself; touch Me and see, for a spirit does not have flesh and bones as you see that I have." (Luke 24:38-39).

Yup... the WTS really painted themselves in a corner with this one!

Hellrider

This is also directly linked to why they believe that Jesus was not resurrected in the flesh and instead teach that he was a spirit who "faked" flesh for Thomas who wanted to touch Jesus' "fake" wounds in his hands.

What? They teach that? !?! I did NOT know that! Holy crap. But if that`s the case, then that`s completely unBiblical. Do you have any sources for that?

FairMind

Well, remember that Jesus said that flesh and blood could not inherit God's kingdom and also after he died he became a life giving spirit. So does it make sense that he was flesh and blood when he ascending to heaven?

heathen

I don't have a problem with an invisible presence at this time but eventually the son of man is revealed , kinda like the wizard of oz behind the curtain. Jesus did say he would be with the apostles all the days until the conclusion of this system of things tho he wouldn't literally be standing next to them . Like lightning that lights the heavens from eastern to western parts . It's just amazing to me how they can take something like that and make such a friggen mess out of it .

Parousia and invisibe presence

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