"Where else are we to go?" - How to answer?

by AlmostAtheist 43 Replies latest jw friends

• 

  carla

  Are you hoping your hypothetical friend becomes atheist instead?

  The problem I see is that you are correct when you say they want someone to tell them what to think. I would think that even if you wanted someone to become an atheist they would still need to research and be willing to do some critical thinking on their own. In my experience I do not see jw's who fit that criteria, critical thinking skills. I guess one would have to keep trying to find questions that challenge one to think in which you (as an ex jw) know there are not printed answers to. But then, what I find is that a jw who is not ready to become a 'lover of truth' of any kind, they just shut down. I think in the case of jw's you need to know both points inside and out. If Christian, then you better know your bible, if atheist then you better have a good handle on evolution and the like and doctrines of jw's.

  The 'magic bullet' to get someone out seems to be the right question to get them truly thinking, one that they can feel passionate about, one that really matters to them on a personal level. Even then, they often are willing to push it aside out of fear. What if, it really is God' org? they really are led by the Spirit? right about the big A? Paradise earth? Surely these people have researched everything, haven't they? Why would God fearing people lie to us/me?

  That's why it's called mind control.
• 

  NewYork44M

  I respond with "why do you have to go anywhere?"

  Too many people look to connect to something so that they can disregard personal responsibility. At birth, a person gets disconnected from the umbilical cord and then spends the rest of their live trying to connect to something else. It is scary to rely on oneself, but the rewards are great.

  When I try to explain this, most people just give me a blank stare.
• 

  Scully

  "Anywhere you want to go!" as though they are on the brink of an amazing adventure.

  That's usually a horrifying prospect for a JW, because they are so accustomed to being dependent upon doing what they have been instructed to do. But a choice to leave the JWs (and more specifically the WTS) puts them in the driver's seat of their own life. They get to be responsible for their choices in life. The successes are to their credit and the bumps along the way are of their own choosing too. They can't look at themselves in 50 years and say "Well I didn't have kids because the Society didn't recommend it" or "I don't have a pension now because the Society said that Armageddon was Just Around The Corner™."

  The thing is, leaving the WTS and taking responsibility for oneself means that if they want to get married, or stay single, or have kids, or remain childless, go to university, get a career, start a pension plan, try smoking pot, etc etc is not going to be dictated by someone else's "rules". The power goes back into the hands of the person who will ultimately be bearing the price and consequences of those choices.

  "I have no where else to go" is what you hear women say who have been abused for a very long time.... they become so dependent on their abusive partner to validate their existence and make decisions FOR them that they cannot imagine doing it for themselves. And when I hear a JW say those words, it reminds me of that abusive dynamic.
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  LittleToe

  For goodness sakes don't give them the Micro$oft line of "Where do you want to go today?"
• 

  AlmostAtheist

  Are you hoping your hypothetical friend becomes atheist instead?

  No, I wouldn't imagine that the average doubting JW would be prepared to make a leap from "cult" to "no god" in one step. I honestly think it's easier to make a case for the Bible itself being baloney, than to make a case for any one interpretation of it to be baloney. But if the goal is to help the most doubting JW's with one wide brush, that brush probably shouldn't be an atheistic or even non-biblical one.

  Which is ironic, since that's exactly how I left. But I tend to cheat. ;-)

  That's why I also wouldn't want to necessarily pound them with evolution, though learning how the evolution book is based on lying misquotes might wake some up.

  "I have no where else to go" is what you hear women say who have been abused for a very long time.... they become so dependent on their abusive partner to validate their existence and make decisions FOR them that they cannot imagine doing it for themselves. And when I hear a JW say those words, it reminds me of that abusive dynamic.

  That's chilling, Scully. I wonder what the response would be if you simply said that in response.
  JW: "If not the Watchtower, who else can I turn to?"
  Scully: "That's exactly the question abused women ask when they are told to leave their abusive husbands. Why do you think they don't leave?"

  Hmmm.. perhaps not. But it's still intriguing.

  Dave
• 

  daniel-p

  "where else are we to go?"
  -
  "finding true worship should not be a process of elimination."
• 

  JustTickledPink

  The thing is, if you really and truly believe in God that won't change. Your personal relationship with God has NOTHING to do with the middle-man called the Watchtower society. You can still pray, live your life with faith and read the bible if that is what you choose.

  I am always amazed that people think they need another human to be their mediator or middle-man between themselves and God.

  I don't go to church. I don't participate in any religion and I don't feel like I'm missing anything.
• 

  ackack

  Interestingly, a CO used an illustration like this once. Said that picking the right religion was like identifying the counterfeit bill. Its far easier to identify the right bill (based on positive features) instead of identifying the wrong bill (based on negative features)

  Its a nutty concept though. Basically you're saying, its wrong to reject falsehood because you don't have something better to replace it with.

  In science, do you reject a theory simply becuase you have something better?

  ackack
• 

  jgnat

  Let me see. If I summarize my answer to this question over the years, I think it goes something like this.

  "Your foundation just has been seriously shook. You know what you don't believe any more, but you are not sure what to believe. This is an excellent time to spend in reflection, to re-examine your foundations. Read the bible, plain. Pray for guidance. What do you know is sure? Start there. I am sure God will lead you to a safe harbour when you are done, but don't rush the process. Don't be in a hurry to follow any other men until you know what is sure."
• 

  Scully

  I don't go to church. I don't participate in any religion and I don't feel like I'm missing anything.

  Ditto that.

  from your friendly neighbourhood atheist lady