by DavidChristopher 14 Replies latest watchtower beliefs
Did the serpent put himself in harms way to "free" us and open new information, bringing us to his level, or was he trying to get worship like the "elders" today. What would happen, if he told us to follow Jesus, obey his commands, and seek after Jesus? The "elders" don't want that, would the "serpent"? What would THAT do to religons today? I would say some people would have some explaining to do. Can I get some feedback?
Your Little Brother,
David
David,
Have you ever heard a serpent talk? Have you ever had a serpent tell you to do something? Is there any real proof that serpents have ever had the ability to speak? What is a serpent? What would you do if a serpent was speaking to you? What would you do if someone told you that a serpent was talking to them? What would you think?
Am I the only one here who thinks the whole concept is crazy?
Whether the snake talked or not, it's an interesting thought you bring up. Jesus brought in a new way at the price of the old way, the ot, the original words of god, so claimed. The serpent brought in a new way at the expense of the original words/commands of god, so claimed. Heehee, i love it.
S
:Did the serpent put himself in harms way to "free" us and open new information, bringing us to his level,Did the serpent put himself in harms way to "free" us and open new information, bringing us to his level,Did the serpent put himself in harms way to "free" us and open new information, bringing us to his level,
If you believe in talking snakes and even philosophise about that, then you are insane and no sane person will discourse with you. Dubs will, though.
Farkel
Did the serpent put himself in harms way to "free" us and open new information, bringing us to his level,
of course, satan doesn't exist. i have tried praying to him for a sign, doing incantations with candles and blood and all that, and nothing. either that or he thinks i am already doing fine in the free thinking dept, lol. anyways, as far as the myth is concerned, i think he is a pretty cool guy, and was trying to help us out in the garden of eden. he wanted for humans to become as gods. he probably felt that the act of worship was an immature request on god's part, since after all he stopped worshiping god himself.
and if you talk to satanists today, you will find that most agree that he was a liberator against a tyrant God, and wants humans to become as gods. he invites us to do so.
as far as comparing his job to jesus' job is concerned, i would say that satan is still more of a liberator than jesus is, because if one goes with jesus over satan, he/she is still required to worship jesus, whereas that is not a requirement from satan. so basically, you can be a free-thinker, and still enjoy the same life as xians do: love, happiness, family etc etc.
TS
A serpent talking to humans should have been our first clue that there was something false about the scriptures.
Many of us were raised on a steady diet of fairy tales, so the concept of a talking serpent wasn't so far-fetched at the time we were first introduced to bible writings and stories.
That's when they get you. When you're young and inexperienced and will believe most anything delivered by people you don't know you shouldn't trust with your life, nor to teach you anything valuable.
Having accepted the concept of "holy writings" for most of one's life, it takes some major "waking up and smelling the coffee" to realize it's bunk and just some men's agenda's for manipulating and controlling others.
Frannie
frannie,
Thanks, Tet!
FB
Did Jesus and the serpent have the same job? Answer: NO
A significant portion of the early Christian Gnostics, often called "Ophites" (from the Greek ophis, "serpent"; cf. the Naassenes, from Hebrew nachash), believed just that.
http://www.30giorni.it/us/articolo.asp?id=784
Here's an excerpt from the Testimony of Truth (Nag Hammadi):
And from another Nag Hammadi tractate, the Hypostasis of the Archons:It is written in the Law concerning this, when God gave a command to Adam, "From every tree you may eat, but from the tree which is in the midst of Paradise do not eat, for on the day that you eat from it, you will surely die." But the serpent was wiser than all the animals that were in Paradise, and he persuaded Eve, saying, "On the day when you eat from the tree which is in the midst of Paradise, the eyes of your mind will be opened." And Eve obeyed, and she stretched forth her hand; she took from the tree and ate; she also gave to her husband with her. And immediately they knew that they were naked, and they took some fig-leaves (and) put them on as girdles.
But God came at the time of evening, walking in the midst of Paradise. When Adam saw him, he hid himself. And he said, "Adam, where are you?" He answered (and) said, "I have come under the fig tree." And at that very moment, God knew that he had eaten from the tree of which he had commanded him, "Do not eat of it." And he said to him, "Who is it who has instructed you?" And Adam answered, "The woman whom you have given me." And the woman said, "It is the serpent who instructed me." And he (God) cursed the serpent, and called him "devil." And he said, "Behold, Adam has become like one of us, knowing evil and good." Then he said, "Let us cast him out of paradise, lest he take from the tree of life, and eat, and live forever."
But what sort is this God? First he maliciously refused Adam from eating of the tree of knowledge, and, secondly, he said "Adam, where are you?" God does not have foreknowledge? Would he not know from the beginning? And afterwards, he said, "Let us cast him out of this place, lest he eat of the tree of life and live forever." Surely, he has shown himself to be a malicious grudger! And what kind of God is this? For great is the blindness of those who read, and they did not know him. And he said, "I am the jealous God; I will bring the sins of the fathers upon the children until three (and) four generations." And he said, "I will make their heart thick, and I will cause their mind to become blind, that they might not know nor comprehend the things that are said." But these things he has said to those who believe in him and serve him!
And in one place, Moses writes, "He made the devil a serpent those whom he has in his generation." Also, in the book which is called "Exodus," it is written thus: "He contended against the magicians, when the place was full of serpents according to their wickedness; and the rod which was in the hand of Moses became a serpent, (and) it swallowed the serpents of the magicians."
Again it is written (Nm 21:9), "He made a serpent of bronze (and) hung it upon a pole ...
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... which [...] for the one who will gaze upon this bronze serpent, none will destroy him, and the one who will believe in this bronze serpent will be saved." For this is Christ; those who believed in him have received life. Those who did not believe will die.
Then the female spiritual principle came in the snake, the instructor; and it taught them, saying, "What did he say to you? Was it, 'From every tree in the garden shall you eat; yet - from the tree of recognizing good and evil do not eat'?"
The carnal woman said, "Not only did he say 'Do not eat', but even 'Do not touch it; for the day you eat from it, with death you are going to die.'"
And the snake, the instructor, said, "With death you shall not die; for it was out of jealousy that he said this to you. Rather your eyes shall open and you shall come to be like gods, recognizing evil and good." And the female instructing principle was taken away from the snake, and she left it behind, merely a thing of the earth. And the carnal woman took from the tree and ate; and she gave to her husband as well as herself; and these beings that possessed only a soul, ate. And their imperfection became apparent in their lack of knowledge; and they recognized that they were naked of the spiritual element, and took fig leaves and bound them upon their loins.Then the chief ruler came; and he said, "Adam! Where are you?" - for he did not understand what had happened. And Adam said, "I heard your voice and was afraid because I was naked; and I hid."
The ruler said, "Why did you hide, unless it is because you have eaten from the tree from which alone I commanded you not to eat? And you have eaten!"
Adam said, "The woman that you gave me, she gave to me and I ate." And the arrogant ruler cursed the woman.
The woman said, "It was the snake that led me astray and I ate." They turned to the snake and cursed its shadowy reflection, [...] powerless, not comprehending that it was a form they themselves had modeled. From that day, the snake came to be under the curse of the authorities; until the all-powerful man was to come, that curse fell upon the snake.
