I agree that it is hypocritical to accept donated blood products but to refuse to help others in the same way. Could this be a type of "black/white think"?
DAMNED CONSCIENCE:JW Hypocrites Who Take Blood Products
by steve2 35 Replies latest watchtower bible
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steve2
Actually, the most doctrinally congruent thing the Watchtower could do would be to "toughen" up the no-blood doctrine; that is, forbid all use of blood products period. No room for conscience at all. That would comply with their literalistic interpretation of scripture and remove all legitimate suggestions of hypocrisy (taking blood products but forbidding the donation of blood). I doubt, though, whether they'll go down this path.
Equally, however, because so many have died refusing blood, it would be just as unlikely that they would take a path of "fading" the no-blood doctrine - although that would be the seinsible and compassionate path to take.
They're nicely painted thermselves into a corner.
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TallTexan
Just like many other things. They can't donate to the Red Cross, but they will accept aid from them. They will not donate to the Salvation Army, but they will accept aid from them. They will not donate blood, but they will take fractions made from that blood.
The ultimate in hypocrisy....
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wednesday
A long time ago I aksed an elder about "consicience matters", esp the blood issue. He told me that any REAL JWS knows that the conscience clause has just been put in there to protect the WTS, it is not really a conscience matter. Real Jws know that you don't take blood, vote or serve in the militry, etc. It is there to protect the WTS from the apostates who seek to bring legal action against the org. If you avail yourself of the conscience clause, you will then be watched, ie viewed with suspicion b/c you have shown you are not a Real Jws. I swear this is true, you can't make it up.
weds
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joanne_
i was talking to two sisters at the door. i told them i had a real problem with the blood issue. i told them that each person should have the choice to do what they must in any given situation. and that they should not be d'fed if they chose blood. they said not all are d'fed, that sometimes under pressure they take the blood. they are forgiven though because they are sorry they took it. i said well then, they should be allowed to take it then. they said, no, you must not think that way, you should oppose and not give in. in other words, lie to the brothers and sisters that you will not take blood, but do take blood under pressure, then repent. that is the only way you cannot be disfellowshipped....i dont know if i am making sense here, but it seems to me, the society sets people up to lie to themselves and to others.
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IP_SEC
Watchtower allows the Witnesses to exercise individual consciences
Calling something a conscience matter in the WTS is utter bollocks.
When the WTS tells you "such and such is a conscience matter, but thus and such is not" they effectively become the conscience.
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Marvin Shilmer
steve2 writes:
"However, one issue not advanced by then JW elder Jensen which should have been is the following: "If the Watchtower allows the Witnesses to exercise individual consciences on whether they make use of blood components (e.g., Factor VIII), does the Watchtower allow witnesses to exercise their individual consciences in whether they would donate blood for fellow witnesses that was to be used for the purpose of fractionated blood products? To me, this appears a perfectly salient question - especially for those whose consciences (wisely) say "yes" to using blood components."
This issue is addressed in the Jensen letters. Jensen wrote:
"Our stance is inherently conflicting since we are willing to use from the donated and stored blood supply but are unwilling to replenish the same thing that we are using from." Letter dated 1/3/2001 page 2
The whole paragraph goes on to discuss this very thing.
The WTS apparently answered Jensen's concern on this point in a voice conversation, which Jensen alludes to in the 6/9/2001 letter where he wrote:
"In conversation it was stated to me that it is a personal conscience matter whether a Christian decides to donate blood that will be used in fractionated forms, the same fractionated forms that we likewise leave to personal conscience as to acceptance. I was told this act being left up to each Christian's conscience naturally follows from what we have already published about decisions to accept fractions of blood." Letter dated 6/9/2001 page 4.
Jensen's statement is confirmed by a letter dated 7/30/2001 to Cliff Roche. In that letter the WTS writes:
"On the same basis, some have felt that under certain conditions they could allow some minor fraction of their blood to be extracted for treating a medical condition as long as there was no misuse of their blood otherwise. The use of blood fractions is neither sanctioned or discouraged, but a matter for personal decision." Letter dated 7/30/2001 page 1
Hence the WTS' unpublished policy is that JWs can donated blood all day long so long as that blood is used in the same fractionated forms the WTS' policy allows JWs to accept, which is "all fractions derived from any primary component of blood,"(1) which means everything sufficiently fractionated. And, it is no mystery why the WTS does not make frank acknowledgement of this aspect of its policy because to do so would reveal to even the dumbest person that the WTS whole blood doctrine is nothing more than a sick hoax of life and death proportion.
Marvin Shilmer
1. Durable power of attorney form provided to JWs by the WTS dated 2001
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steve2
Thanks Marvin for the specific references in R Jensen's letters to the blood donor issue.
In my opening post, I was referring to the evident absence of his posing actual questions to the Watchtower about the matter. In the letters, he did not actually raise questions to be answered about the double standard (i.e., accepting blood components but not permitting blood donations).
My understanding is that even the telephone conversation did not explicitly address the question of, say, a JW friend or family member donating blood for a JW who needs Factor VIII.
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Marvin Shilmer
Hello, steve2
You write:
"My understanding is that even the telephone conversation did not explicitly address the question of, say, a JW friend or family member donating blood for a JW who needs Factor VIII."
I talked with Jensen a few years ago on the phone about this very thing. He confirmed the issue you pose above is precisely one of the things his letter asked about (see the citation in my previous post) and was specifically one of the issues addressed in his phone conversation. The Roche letter addresses this same detail. In fact, in its reply, the WTS makes a comment that makes this clear when it wrote:
"However, it is our understanding in many situations that blood from many donors would be needed to get a sufficient amount of a required fraction for treatment. Thus, the blood of a single donor may not be very significant from a practical standpoint in the production of the desired fraction." Letter dated 7/30/2001
I have also called and talked with administrators in the WTS' Hospital Information Services department and was told that for a JW to donate blood that will be fractionated and used in ways the WTS does not forbid is strictly a personal matter for the JW.
Marvin Shilmer
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steve2
I have also called and talked with administrators in the WTS' Hospital Information Services department and was told that for a JW to donate blood that will be fractionated and used in ways the WTS does not forbid is strictly a personal matter for the JW.
A helpful reply. Thanks Marvin. So much for the literal reading of blood needing to be poured out and returned to Jehovah!
Still, at least the leaving of the matter over to the individual's conscience allows room for JWs to donate blood. I have yet to hear of any JW in good standing openly stating that they would donate blood under these restricted conditions - which is not to say it is not happening behind closed doors.
Marvin, from the information that you provide - obtained via phone calls - could I assume that the Watchtower itself has not published its views in any of its publications of donating blood under restricted conditions being a conscience matter?