Back in early Christain times did God really have an organisation with a governing body that gave to the R&F "new light" and "spiritual food" in due time, as the WTS claims?
Did that early Church operate like the WTS does today? Did the apostles behave like the GB does today? As far as I can make out that is a myth, the Spirit gave gifts to all church members according to their abilities and many taught and prophecied according to such gifts. The apostles had no exclusive monopoly on knowledge and authority unlike the GB. So from where did they really take their authority structure model?
Governing Body in the early Church???
by greendawn 13 Replies latest jw friends
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greendawn
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Honesty
Back in early Christain times did God really have an organisation with a governing body that gave to the R&F "new light" and "spiritual food" in due time, as the WTS claims?
No. The early churches were autonomous and many services were held in private homes.The Holy Spirit moved the pastors to speak messages relevant to the local christians. There was NO GOVERNING BODY.
Did that early Church operate like the WTS does today?
Not hardly.
Did the apostles behave like the GB does today?
No.
As far as I can make out that is a myth, the Spirit gave gifts to all church members according to their abilities and many taught and prophecied according to such gifts. The apostles had no exclusive monopoly on knowledge and authority unlike the GB.
You are correct. The WTBT$ is a fake.
So from where did they really take their authority structure model?
It comes from their demented minds.
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Amazing1914
Greendawn: No, there was no Governing Body in the first century or any century afterwards. The early Church operated by councils, with Bishops attending as equals. This system lasted until the year 1054, when Rome broke with the Easten Orthodox over a dispute over Papal authority. Currently, the Eastern Church, as represented by Constantinople (Istanbul, Turkey) still operates by such a system. Rome and the Eastern Orthodox are talking reunification where they would end total Papal Monarchy, and resume Ecumenical Councils.
A good source reference is "A History of Christianity" by Paul Johnson. He is a highly respected and solid British historian. What the Watchtower teaches about history and what actually took place are very different stories - as usual.
Honesty: While it is true that the early Christians met in private homes, especially where they were persecuted, they were nonetheless still very united. If you read the writings of St. Ignatius, Bishop of Antioch in about the year 110 ... who was groomed directly by the Apostle Peter (not to be confused with St. Ignatius of Loyola, who lived much later on.) The early Church was governed by Bishops who wrote letters that circulated among the Roman Empire. St. Ignatius is one of the very earliest Church Fathers, known today as an ante-nicean father (not "against" but rather "predating" the first Ecumenical Council in 325 AD). If one reads his writings today, he sounds like a mix of the Apostle Paul and a Catholic or Orthodox Priest.
Jim Whitney
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Spectrum
"Rome and the Eastern Orthodox are talking reunification where they would end total Papal Monarchy, and resume Ecumenical Councils."
What are the chances of this happening?
I can't see the Italians giving up on the status afforded them by hosting the papacy. -
Honesty
Honesty: While it is true that the early Christians met in private homes, especially where they were persecuted, they were nonetheless still very united.
Did I say they were not united?
autonomy n. self-government
autonomous adj.
The early Christian churches were autonomous (self-governing) and at the same time united in their faith in Jesus.
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drew sagan
The first century christians had a governing body like my pet cat has a degree in horticulture.
If you think real hard you will realize how Christ came to REPLACE man made religious structre and not create more of it. Of course, he new that people would not be able to handle this so he gave us that illustration about the WEEDS. -
Amazing1914
Honesty:
Did I say they were not united? ... The early Christian churches were autonomous (self-governing) and at the same time united in their faith in Jesus.
No, you didn't say they were not united. I merely noted that they were united. I was not making any suggestion about your claims, other than your belief that they functioned as independantly as you think. The early Christians were not as autonomous as you suggest. If one reads the history as it happened, it becomes all to clear that the early Christians were held together by Bishops, and Apostolic Sees (today called Patriarchs in the east and the Pope in the west.)
Spectrum:
What are the chances of this happening? ... I can't see the Italians giving up on the status afforded them by hosting the papacy.
The chances are very good. In 2003, Rome sent a full apology letter to Patriarch Bartholomew of the Greek Orthodox Church for the schism in 1054 and for the sack of Constantinople in 1204. Likewise, the eastern Church has sent concilatory response letters to the Pope. The only real issue is exactly how the Papacy will function. The East is willing to return to the days when Rome was treated as the first among equals, and as the arbitrare in disputes. The Italians have nothing to say about it. However, they have nothing to lose, since Rome will stay right where it is, and function as the Holy See of St. Peter, as it has for nearly 2000 years.
Jim W.
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Narkissos
The discussion above applies very well to the early Catholic church, or "Great church," in the 2nd century. Imo the NT writings suggest a very different picture for the 1st century, which is even farther from a system of central authority. In spite of the harmonising presentation in Acts, it seems that there was very little in common, from both a doctrinal and practical standpoint, between James' group in Jerusalem, the Galilean itinerant preachers, the Hellenistic-Pauline ekklèsiai, or the Johannine communities. Actually one can hardly speak of an "early church" before the last quarter of the 1st century (which is about the time when the distinct singular, non-local use of ekklèsia really emerges).
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Honesty
No, you didn't say they were not united. I merely noted that they were united. I was not making any suggestion about your claims, other than your belief that they functioned as independantly as you think. The early Christians were not as autonomous as you suggest. If one reads the history as it happened, it becomes all to clear that the early Christians were held together by Bishops, and Apostolic Sees (today called Patriarchs in the east and the Pope in the west.)
Sorry, but this was not true until after the first century.
During the first century the churches were autonomous.
Sounds catholic to me and since they put their trust in a pope instead of Jesus I don't consider them a whole lot different than the WT cult.it becomes all to clear that the early Christians were held together by Bishops, and Apostolic Sees (today called Patriarchs in the east and the Pope in the west.)
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freedomlover
this was a topic I thoroughly researched and read and re-read in the bible. Fred Franz's CoC has a good chapter on it also............
there is no basis for their authority, the way the WTS says they have authority from the bible.