Satan is just down right Nasty!
What's so bad about Satan?
by robhic 60 Replies latest watchtower beliefs
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BlessedStar
Did you all know this about Isa. 14:14:
Satan or the anointed "cherub who covers" was a created being who was in the garden of Eden. He started out as a holy angel. He knew that he was stunningly beautiful, and that was his downfall. He became proud of himself. In fact, he wanted to be like God.BlessedStar
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robhic
Golf:
Robhic, what's so 'good' about satan? If two wrongs don't make a right, then, where does this put satan and God?
Not sure I quite understand the point, but I won't say satan is "good" only that when compared to the god of the bible, satan seems a whole lot less violent and mean-spirited. But then he gets the blame for everything.
Shining One:
Why did I already know that you would ignore the point and try to further defend your own weak argument?
I don't know. Maybe because you're clairvoyant? Self-righteous by thinking your argument was so powerful? I don't know. Did god tell you?
...He is in control of His creation yet at the same time creation that is 'in His image', are free moral agents. He sets the rules: we play by them and that is the end of the argument.
I think someone else addressed this point. That's kind of a sucky arrangement. I am "free" to do what? Whatever I want? No! To do whatever I am told are "the rules" and if I don't play nice, I get killed. Like all the women and babies in the bible, I might add. Still sucks.
Why can't I live life the way I want to? If I make any serious transgressions or break laws here, the authorities on earth will deal with my felonious actions. If I want to eat shellfish, work on the sabbath (when is it, anyway, Saturday or Sunday?), fondle an unmarried woman or other things of a like nature, why do I need killin' ? I don't think so...
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Shining One
Sir82,
Do you have any idea of the difference is literature, metaphors, helenic influences and the historical-grammatical methods of interpretation? I thought not. You have not progressed from JW style single-scripture exegesis...
Rex -
THE SHOOTIST
What's so bad about Satan is he is only as bad as God made him. The bigger the screw-up by God, the bigger the bad for Satan. When you're a nasty, bad tempered God who goes on killing rampages at will, you have to have an equally nasty counterpart to take the flack. That where Satan and his organization come in. Think about how convenient Satan's bad and his organization are used by the JWs as the answer for every thing from his manipulation of apostates through lies and deceit, higher education to teach us to doubt things like the creation account, the flood, archaeology' and the dating of historical events that don't agree with their chronology. I think that should be JW Scholar's new approach. It sure makes a lot more sense than his 607 B.C. ramblings. Think about this, Satan did all the bad stuff to Job but who fingered Job for the action? Who let it happen? How many of us could get over the death of one child and not curse God under these circumstances? Job's wife was right in that God needed to be cursed, but who got the blame? Whose to blame for the WTs over 125 years of failed prophecy, God or Satan? Whe J.F. Rutherford said that his prophecies concerning 1925 caused him to make an ass out of himself, who was helping the ass-maker, God or Satan? I've never heard any comments on that one. Now, if Satan is the Father of the Lie and if everything you say never comes true, then who is the culprit? Maybe God and Satan are the same figure wearing two masks.
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IMustBreakAway
The bible would god's propaganda, (if there is a god) the funny thing is that only in a few places does the bible paint satan asa bad person. I can't think of any scriptures where satan kills anybody. (where god kills many) Only scriptures where satan offers knowledge and power. Like i said why fight a battle that you know you can't win if your purpose is anything but nobel.
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BlessedStar
God didn't make Satan bad or ugly. Satan became proud.
Blessed Star
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robhic
So at this point in the thread, it seems to my way of thinking that satan just doesn't "make the cut" as the consumate, evil, vile scumbag he is always portrayed to be. Other than some weak attempts by a few to justify satan as the master of all bad things, it just hasn't been effectively proven.
SATAN:
- He doesn't really kill anyone
- He is blamed for most everything bad (as he still is today)
- He doesn't really lie and where he does, it is a minor deal. No worse than "theocratic warfare" (an acceptable lie) would be
- He did some ugly things but no one said he was perfect...
GOD:
- Responsible -- directly or indirectly -- for killing thousands (millions?) of people
- Gets credit for all good things, no matter who does them or why
- Lied, at least, to Adam & Eve (no matter how the apologists try to spin it...) and seemingly to others
- Did horrible, reprehensible, violent things on the level of the modern Holocaust --- yet he is said to be perfect. ) Perfect what, killing machine?
So it looks like satan has been getting the blame for everything bad (because people still fail to take responsibility and blaming someone else is easier) and god gets al the credit for everything good. This is just too simple-minded. Like someone pointed out, satan is only as bad as god makes him. Can't be such a good person unless you have someone to pin the bad stuff on!
Good discussion and I appreciate everyone's input. If satan would run for elected office, just think of the possibilities!
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SeymourButts
God created evil "I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the Lord do all these things" (Isa. 45:7). "Is it not from the mouth of the Most High that good and evil come?" (Lam. 3:38). "...that I may repent of the evil, which I purpose to do unto them because of the evil of their doings" (Jer. 26:3). "...all the evil which I purpose to do unto them; that they may return every man from his evil way; that I may forgive their iniquity and their sin" (Jer. 36:3). "I gave them also statutes that were not good, and judgments whereby they should not live. And I polluted them in their own gifts...." (Ezek. 20:25-26). "For thus saith the Lord; as I have brought all this great evil upon this people, so will I bring upon them all the good that I have promised them" (Jer. 32:42). "...shall there be evil in a city, and the Lord hath not done it?" (Amos 3:6). Evil comes from God "it came to pass, when the evil spirit from God was upon Saul, that David took an harp, and played with his hand: so Saul was refreshed, and was well, and the evil spirit departed from him" (1 Sam. 16:23). "it came to pass on the morrow, that the evil spirit from God came upon Saul...." (1 Sam. 18:10). "the evil spirit from the Lord was upon Saul...." (1 Sam. 19:9). "Saul's servants said unto him, Behold now, an evil spirit from God troubles thee" (1 Sam. 16:15). "the spirit of the Lord departed from Saul, and an evil spirit from the Lord troubles him" (1 Sam. 16:14). "...evil came down from the Lord unto the gate of Jerusalem" (Micah 1:12). "Thus saith the Lord, Behold I will raise up evil against thee out of thine own house, and I will take thy wives before thine eyes, and give them unto thy neighbor, and he shall lie with thy wives in the sight of this sun. For thou did it secretly: but I will do this thing before all Israel, and before the sun" (2 Sam. 12:11-12). "God sent an evil spirit between Abimelech and the men of Shechem...." (Judges 9:23). See also: 1 Kings 14:10, 2 Kings 21:12, and Isa. 31:2. God tells people to lie "...and thou (Moses) shalt come, thou and the elders of Israel, unto the king of Egypt, and you shall say unto him, The Lord God of the Hebrews hath met with us: and now let us go, we beseech thee, three days journey into the wilderness, that we may sacrifice to the Lord our God" (Ex. 3:18) and "afterward Moses and Aaron went in, and told Pharaoh, Thus saith the Lord God of Israel, Let my people go, that they may hold a feast unto me in the wilderness." God is telling Moses to lie because the real reason is to escape.
"Samuel said, How can I go? if Saul hear it, he will kill me. And the Lord said, Take a heifer with thee, and say, I am come to sacrifice to the Lord" (1 Sam. 16:2). The Lord told Samuel to lie also, since he is actually going out to meet a son of Jesse to anoint him king. Yet, we are told in Prov. 12:22 that, "Lying lips are an abomination to the Lord."
God Lies Joshua 7:1 says, "The people of Israel broke faith in regard to the devoted things; for Achan...took some of the devoted things; and the anger of the Lord burned against the people of Israel" and God responds by saying in the 11th verse, "Israel has sinned, and they have also transgressed my covenant...." Yet, God did not tell the truth. Only Achan sinned, not all Israel, and Achan admits as much in the 20th verse by saying, "Indeed I have sinned against the Lord God of Israel...."
God Deceives"O Lord, thou hast deceived me, and I was deceived...." (Jer. 20:7).
"if the prophet be deceived when he hath spoken a thing, I the Lord have deceived that prophet, and I will stretch out my hand upon him, and will destroy him from the midst of my people Israel" (Ezek. 14:9).
"Ah, Lord God! Surely thou hast greatly deceived this people and Jerusalem, saying, Ye shall have peace; whereas the sword reaches unto the soul" (Jer. 4:10).
"...God sends upon them a strong delusion, to make them believe what is false, so that all may be condemned who did not believe the truth but had pleasure in unrighteousness" (2 Thess. 2:9-12). -
Shining One
Shootist,
Are you really another troll from Nate Merit? LOL
Rex