by montana96 37 Replies latest jw friends
If you let her go and she becomes indoctrinated, you realize she will have to shun you. Maybe not now, but once she leaves home (your parents could encourage her to move in with them at an early age) and becomes a good little pioneer, she will turn her back on you.
My daughter at 19 wrote me a Dear John letter. I'm not df'ed nor da'ed.
http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/9/74715/1.ashx
Please realize she is only a child and you are responsible for what she takes into her mind.
Take care,
Bryan
Hello Mercedes. As the Texan ahead of me said: "You're in a very hard spot." Wow, are you ever. Well, I don't think that letting her go to meetings once a week, say on Sunday, or go once a month, or whatever, is such a bad thing. As Witnesses, we were taught that the word 'compromise' is one of the dirtiest words in any language. In reality, however, compromise is necessary in any and all areas of life. I don't think that by compromising here you would be doing such a bad thing, especially since this something that your daughter wants to do.
I agree with what was said here. To seemingly "take this away from her" would cause friction on too many camps right now.
Be aware, though, that she is at an age when pressure to get baptized starts being applied. I would let both your daughter and your parents know that this is not going to happen. Not until she is an adult, on her own, and capable of making adult decisions, will she be allowed to get baptized. I would make that very clear.
Extremely important advice!! Having raised kids as JWs, I well know the "rebellious period" when you'd do anything to keep them headed in the "WTS direction". Hopefully she will be among those who tire of the boring and repetitve meetings and all of the "do nots" and "cannots" she will be subjected to. Her (future) teen-age friends will not be impressed with her "ways". This pretty often leads to wanting to be "just like everyone else" in school, and this is when JW parents are ready to tear their hair out trying to keep peace. It may all just blow over in a few short years!
I don't know your daughter's temperament, but sometimes (depending on the individual) showing scripures that oppose her "beliefs" (no matter how accurate ) can often backfire. Personally, I wouldn't go there, but you asked for advice, and this is mine, LOL!
It would make me sick to have had to allow my kids to be around a KH after I left...but in this case you are kinda stuck. I too wish you (and her) the best of luck, and hope that she decides to choose to dump the WTS all on her own!
hugs,
Annie
Bryan,
I'm very sorry to hear that. But I feel in Mercedes' case the KH is just one place for JW influence. The grandparents are there anyway.
What is to be weighed (and I admit this is difficult) is (1) the potential damage of occasionally attending JW meetings vs. (2) the potential damage of putting oneself in the "bad" role of the prohibitor while giving JWs the attractive role of the forbidden "good".
Sometimes playing it "cool" and turning around the difficulty with some humour may pay off -- not always of course.
There's an old Zulu proverb that goes something like: "Before you take away from someone all they hold dear, be sure to replace it with something of value."
What does your daughter really want to do? Take dance lessons? Play soccer or some other sport? Gymnastics? Pursue a hobby?
Find here something to do, and somebody to do it with, i.e., get her involved in a school activity, the local recreation department, boys and girls club, something! You might even look at some church groups that offer lots of entertainment for kids her age.
The point is, get her involved and busy pursuing other interests and making other friends. It won't be long before she's forgotten all about the KH.
I guess you know your daughter the best, but direct opposition can often backfire..
A cautionary tale though, A true story. Grandmother was a loyal witness, Mother left it and never got baptized. She had three daughters who visited Gran in school holidays.. All three are active dubs many years later , there are grandchildren too all devoted dubs..
I have not read the other post on this thread so I do not know what you have been told you. I see that you or your husband left a few years ago and I assume you are not DF"d either of you. Now here is the biggest problem if you stop your daughter form going to meeting I guarantee that they the Elders will come after you with all their unrighteous furry, you will be hunted and they will get you for be an apposer of God. They will DF you and they have the grounds to do it. You are between a rock and a hard spot if you do not want to be DF'd. So way your decision based on this fact you know how hard it would be if you and your husband got DF'd.
If you decide that it is to much of a price to pay getting DF'd over this you have to let her go and hope for the best. I have a close friend that is going though the exact thing you are. He let his boy go and has demanded that he play basketball and go to the other sports games at school. He makes him join in extracurricular activities and the boy is now 15 and as you know life at that age changes a young mind. Plus my friend asks the boy questions that makes him think about things. I have to say it is working the boy is slowing down and is coming around, he is starting to see that his friends at school are good people and can not get his brain around the fact Jehovah is going to kill them. LOL he is think finally.
Mercedes, you have been given excellent advice here, I agree with Dansk, show her the truth about the organization and why it is wrong. My husband and I were in a similar spot, not that my parents wanted to take my kids to the KH, but that we had to explain to them why we were hardly going to meetings. We had also indoctrinated them very well, so I could tell they were feeling like something was wrong.
We first started by telling them that we had found out some stuff the organization had lied about, and this was the reason we were missing meetings, we were gathering some info before we shared it with them. Then one day we sat down and explained the NGO thing, the Malawi thing, the history of the organization, and the Faithful and Discreet Slave nonsense. We were very surprised when they told us that they had felt for some time there was something wrong with the JW's. My oldest who is in his teens said that he always wondered why we needed a FDS-GB when we had Jesus Christ, and the youngest who was 11 at the time said that what really bothered him is that they kept repeating the same stuff in all the meetings and assemblies and sometimes he felt like screaming at the brother on the platform to just "SHUT UP" , imagine our surprise! (my youngest is our little firecracker, and spent alot of time in the back room during meetings), poor kid!
After sharing those things, we told them that we were still doing more research on Religion in general and would continue sharing our findings with them, which we have done. I don't know if you have read my previous posts, but my husband and I after doing exhaustive research (mainly I did this, since I have more time) found out how the bible was put together by the church and why this was done, we have researched ancient civilizations like the Sumerians which shows that they were the original authors of some of the stories the Hebrews borrowed like Job, the story of Noah, the creation story etc. There is alot of research on this web site I hope you take advantage of this and enlighten yourselves.
Well, we shared this info with the kids, their eyes were wide with astonishment when we told them that basically all we had known was not necessarily true. The hardest thing to let go of for my 11 year old, like your daughter was the Paradise belief, he was pretty down about this, with teary eyes he asked me that when I die, if he would never see me again, my heart just broke, I hugged him and said, that I believed we went on after we died, but that I would research this and we would talk about it again. I did extensive research into life after death, Near Death Experiences, Rebirth and was pleasantly surprised, there are instances of people that were born blind that have an NDE and they describe seeing everything in the room while they were clinically dead, there are experiences of children describing events in a past life, were they have verified the dead persons circumstances at death and they coincide with what the child said.
Anyway, to make the long story short, my husband and I now believe in the afterlife, in all of these experiences they see their loved ones again, and go to a place that looks visually like their idea of heaven or paradise I won't tell you more I don't want to freak you out, you probably are already anyway from what I've told you. Well, here was what I wanted to find out, when we shared that info with our kids they hugged us and we could see this brought them peace. My little one said "Wow that's kool, we get to see you guys again, now I don't feel afraid of dying anymore".
He was also very relieved when he found out there would not be a "Persecution" or "Tribulation" or the "Armaggedon", this is something that gave him nightmares, he feared we would be taken away from them and tortured, what a terrible thing to put a child through, I can tell you honestly Mercedes, that these children are today much happier and no longer afraid of living in this "worldly" system they know that we can enjoy our lives and have freinds that are not witnesses and they now enjoy that, they enjoy sports, they are free to pursue their dreams!
We still go to some meetings, we are faders, my mom and other family members and freinds are still in, but we have helped some of my family and close freinds see the truth about the "Truth" and they pretty much believe the same as we do now, we believe in a Creator but no longer believe in Religion, and we don't believe the bible is inspired, it's been quite a Journey, but one that has been very worthwhile, I wish you the best on yours, sorry this was so long, but I hope it is of some use to you.
IC
You've been given a lot of info and I was going to repeat what the others have said (although some recent responses may have said this)
The WTS uses fear to control people. It is using fear to scare your daughter. And they do this using the "God" card. I think your daughter needs to realize the WTS does NOT represent God.
My granddaughter is 11 so I think I have an idea of what she could understand.
First. Do some homework. You can find most of what you will need on this site. Look in the The Best of TS and Chronology. Specificlly look for all the dates where the WTS has said the end was coming. Get the facts.
Write it all down for her.
They said the end was coming in YEAR and then ask "were they right?"
Go down the list for each year..
Next find the scripture where it says that if a person utters a prophesy and it does not come true then it isn't from God. Deut 18: 20. Read it together.
If the WTS has been wrong so many times then based on what the Bible says do you think they are speaking for God?
Find one of Blondie's WT studies. Choose one that she might relate to. Go through it with your daughter the way Blondie does. Sit and talk about why these things are wrong.
As long as she believes the WTS speaks for God she is suseptable to the WT teachings and her grandparents.
Also let her know you love her. And that you know her grandparents love her. And that she loves them. But they are sadly wrong. and they refuse to read some of this information because the WTS has made them scared.
I think you might have to prepare her for the possibility that her grandparents will shun her if she refuses to go to meetings anymore. They may decide to shun her if she says anything against the WTS.
Mercedes, one thing I didn't tell you is that since we are faders we explained to the kids why they could not share this information with any of their JW freinds, they understood and agreed this was the best thing to do at the time. We also told them that the lies were perpetuated by the leaders in the organization, the brothers at the KH's are mostly good and honest people who we love, and they don't know about these things, and we should always show love and have respect for their feelings. So far everything is fine, although I know that eventually we will DA ourselves, but hopefully by then we will have helped more people see the light.
IC
I agree it is much better that she not go, provide positive alternatives, that she is old enough to start reasoning on her own, and it is a good time to sit down and help her work through what makes sense and what doesn't. Her fear that you will not join her in paradise must be addressed, because for a child, that fear is tied up in her love for you. She needs to know that you will always be there for her.
I also agree with Narkissos that forbidding the girl to go may inadvertently drive her closer:
But inasmuch as she still wants to go once in a while I'm on the side of the "don't forbid". Forbidding makes the forbidden desirable and a JW meeting is not worth that.
Now, here is how I used reverse psychology on my teenagers when they were making choices I didn't like. My daughter, for instance, visited a school chum in jail who had been convicted of murder. I wouldn't forbid, because that would drive them closer. But I knew her choice had unseen hazards that in her black-and-white thinking, didn't exist. So I taught her to observe, evaluate, and judge situations whether they were harmful or not. I told her she had no loyalty or obligation to this young man, and AS SOON AS SHE FELT UNCOMFORTABLE, be free to leave. After every visit, I calmly asked how it went, and if she brought up any concerns, I asked how that affected her. I left the freedom to choose in her hands.
I inoculated my children against the manipulative power of commercials the same way. We'd watch together and I'd ask - "What are they selling?" "How are they trying to convince you it is a good thing?" They became more alert to what was being fed to them, instead of being passive consumer lumps sitting on the couch. To this day I'm a connoisseur of television ads.
I'd say if she is adamant about going, go along. Prime her prior to the visit to spot where the speaker might be guiding the audience to a certain way of thinking. Together, come up with the JW phrases that are "loaded language". Make it a girl-time and politely tell your mom the two of you will be sitting together alone, you know, a "bonding moment". During the meeting, pass your notes when you see or hear something untoward, wink, and squeeze her hand. Or prepare a BS bingo card, and make it a game to cross off as many BS phrases as you can during the meeting. Afterwards, debrief. This is different than "twenty questions". You don't want to be an interrogator. Ask open, leading questions, and ask how she felt or thought about various things she saw or heard. Sometimes, you don't want to make conclusions for her. Sometimes your answer will be "Interesting, hmmmm." Let her make up her own mind.
Then you have her for life, and she will be permanently inoculated against manipulation. This might come in handy later if she has a crush on an old school chum who just happens to be a convicted murderer.
