607BCE or 587/586BCE explained (page 7)

scholar pretendus wrote:

: There is nothing in Ezra or Josephus that makes impossible the dating of the Return by Tishri in 537 BCE as observed by Ezra 3:1.

Of course there is -- I pointed it out to you a week and a half ago. You subsequently claimed that it would take you a mere couple of hours to write a refutation -- but we all know that such will never come. Instead, you'll convince yourself that you wrote one, then claim forever more to have done it. You've done this sort of thing many times before.

: The date 538 BCE is not generally supported for this event by scholarship

Of course it is. I've pointed out the evidence in several posts -- all of which you've duly ignored. Most modern scholars go along with 538 B.C. for the return of the Jews; older scholarly works tended to support 537 or 536 B.C.

: and is not even properly proved by the Jonsson hypothesis.

The McFadzen hypothesis contains arguments that contradict the Bible and all manner of historical data. It proves nothing in favor of 537 B.C.

: The return of the Jewish exiles in 537 BE means that the foundation of the Temple was finished in 536 BCE as also noted by Jospehus who noted that the foundation was laid in the second year of Cyrus.

This is an outrageous lie. Josephus directly states that the temple's foundation was laid in Cyrus' 2nd year. He does not give a calendar date in modern terms. We now know that Cyrus' 2nd year ran from Nisan (March/April) of 537 through Adar (February/March) of 536. Ezra 3 states unambiguously that the temple's foundation was begun in the 2nd month of the 2nd year of the Jews' return. The 2nd month of Cyrus' 2nd year is in 537 B.C. -- not in 536.

: The matter of the zero year is a problem of methodology which was not recognized by scholarship until the middle of the last century, it developed from 19th century expositors not recognizing the difference between historical and astronomical dating methods.

As usual, you're talking out of your ass. While it's true that many prophetic speculators of the sort that gave rise to the various Adventist sects such as Russell's Bible Students didn't handle the "zero year" problem properly, good scholars and competent expositors did.

For example, the first person to write about a prophetic time period of 2,520 years was John Aquila Brown in 1823. He had this period run from 604 B.C. to 1917 A.D. He obviously knew to account for the lack of a zero year.

McClintock & Strong's Cyclopedia (Vol. II, C-D, pp. 313-15; first published in 1867), under the subject "Chronology", presents a table of biblical dates that lists the birth of Christ in 6 B.C. and the baptism of Christ in 25 A.D. It argues that Christ was 30 years old at his baptism. Thus, this widely respected scholarly source also properly accounted for the lack of a zero year.

Since I, with just a little work, was able to find two examples of scholars or prophetic speculators who properly accounted for the lack of a zero year, it's amazing that so many writers of the Adventist tradition got it wrong. Likely this stemmed from their blindly following the speculations of William Miller, who also got it wrong. But C. T. Russell claimed that his writings on all Bible topics -- including and especially the Gentile times chronology -- were a product of divine guidance. Either he was lying, or he was fooling himself, since it's obvious that a divinely guided writer could not make such an elementary mistake. Either way, Russell obviously didn't know what he was doing.

Chalking such a mistake up to "a problem of methodology" is ludicrous. And of course, saying that the problem "developed from 19th century expositors not recognizing the difference between historical and astronomical dating methods" is just another way of saying that these expositors were incompetent chronologists. But we already know that! And we already know that C. T. Russell was an incompetent chronologist.

: The calculation of both 607 and 537 are sound both biblically and secularly

Wrong on both counts. There is no secular evidence whatsoever in favor of 607, and little in favor of 537. Nor have you ever presented such evidence as you claim exists. What you've presented is secular evidence in favor of the fall of Babylon in 539, along with the unsound Watchtower tradition that derives 537 and 607 from 539.

: whereas you have no definite dates for the Fall or the Return.

Of course there are. The fall of Jerusalem was in 587, and the return of the Jews to Judah was in 538.

AlanF

Dear Scholar.I have done some reserch on the matter of the Jews returning back at around 537BCE returning back to where the first temple was destroyed. It was Ezra that took them back. But we must not forget the OTHER nations that also returned back in their own times.Yet, they ALL were still in bondage. According to history, the Jews were being a bit premature of returning back earlier than the 70 years. When they returned back, they found the Samaritians allready there with some similar smaller religious orders living there. In later years, what was left of the Isrealites also returned, seeing both the Jews and Samaritions argueing over the land. Now there were three or more religious orders argueing over the land. In time, as the scriptures sites, that the foundation was laid under the rule of Cyrus the Mede. And to it was Cyrus that ordered the building work to stop. It was only that Darius that ordered the temple to be completed with ALL the belongings returned. Please read Ezra 6. We kept thinking that due to Ezra returned with the Jews that the captivity had finished. BUT, we all forgot the rest of the nations that were ALSO affected by the captivity. All information is found on Wikipedia- the free encyclopedia. And even though the Jews were given permission to return, they still did not have all the belongings back that Nebuchadnezzar took away from them. It was Darius that gave the belongings back. Not only this, but a decree went out that no one was allowed to hinder the building work or destroy it- not even Darius himself. And as WT DEC 15 2005 page 18 darius ruled from 522BCE and the building work with ALL its belongings returned in 516BCE. And as to the sacrifices that was done apon their return, all of these DIFFERENT religious nations may of done animail sacrifices throughout the 70years due to it was part of their religious customs as part of their worship.

607BCE or 587/586BCE explained

Kaput

AlanF

truth about the last days

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