Which massacres did Jehovah sanction? (page 2)

Spectrum

Tetra,

I think you've covered all the bases with that link!! If anybody could find a link like that it would be you!!

Legolas

This is from Runningman....

DEATH, AND OTHER MINOR AILMENTS

When I die (God forbid), I certainly hope that it’s not from anything serious. In Bible times, it appears that very few things were ever serious. People seemed to be able to recover from just about anything.
In this chapter, we will explore some of the Bible characters who survived that most serious of all maladies - death. On numerous occasions, a Bible character is killed off, only to reappear in a later chapter or book. Either these were an extremely hardy group of individuals, or someone’s fact checker was in the bar when he should have been checking facts.

THE MIDIANITES
The Midianites engaged in a great sin. They allowed some of the Israelites to have sex with them. As a result, they had to be punished.
Moses, the meekest of all men, issued the order to kill all of the Midianites. Numbers 31:7 tells us that the obedient Israelites “slew every male.” When Moses found out about this, he was furious, and rightly so, because the Israelites had let the women and evil children live. What follows next is one of the most bloodthirsty genocides recorded in the Bible. This meek man issues the command (vs 17) to “kill every male among the little ones, and kill every woman who has known man by lying with him.” Mercifully, though, he decrees that the young girls could just be raped. Verse 18 says “But all the young girls who have not known man by lying with him, keep alive for yourselves.” All together, 32,000 virgins are taken as “booty” (vs 35).
As an aside, it should be mentioned that the Midianites were being punished for fornication. Part of the remedy for that great sin is to take 32,000 young virgins as booty. Does anyone see a bit of a double standard, here?
I suppose I could pause for a moment and comment on the development of the modern expression “booty”, but that hardly seems necessary.
So, the Midianites are completely wiped out. Every man, every boy, and every woman has been killed. The young girls have been individually assimilated into the Hebrew camp. The Midianite race hereby ceases to exist.
But, not for long. Judges 6:1,2 tells us: “The people of Israel did what was evil in the sight of the Lord; and the Lord gave them into the hand of Midian seven years. And the hand of Midian prevailed over Israel; and because of Midian, the people of Israel made for themselves the dens which are in the mountains, and the caves and the strongholds.”
So, after complete annihilation, the Midianites soon are not only back, but are numerous enough to dominate the multi-million (according to the bible) population of the Israelites. Just how numerous were they? Well according to Judges 8:10, there were 135,000 warriors, indicating a total population of at least 400,000. I guess genocide and mass murder aren’t all that serious after all.
The moral of this story is: never pick up an Israelite in a bar.

JABIN, KING OF HAZOR
Another example of someone whose death didn’t quite “take”, was Jabin, the King of Hazor.
In Joshua, chapter 11, the story is told of several tribes who tried to stop the bloodthirsty reign of terror of the Israelites. Jabin, the King of Hazor, sends word to several other kings. So, they muster their forces. “And they came out, with all their troops, a great host, in number like the sand that is upon the seashore, with very many horses and chariots.” (vs 4)
Joshua asks Jehovah what to do. In response, God issues his standard death order. So Joshua goes forth killing in the name of God. “And the Lord gave them into the hand of Israel, who smote them, and chased them as far as great Sidon and Misrephothmaim, and eastward as far as the valley of Mizpeh; and they smote them until they left none remaining.” (vs 8)
Just so that there is no doubt, the bible specifically mentions Jabin. “And Joshua turned back at that time, and took Hazor, and smote its king with the sword; for Hazor formerly was the head of all those kingdoms.” (vs 10)
So, the armies of these kingdoms were destroyed, Jabin was killed, and then Joshua went one step further. He left the army dead on the field of battle, and turned his attention to the city itself. “And they put to the sword all who were in it, utterly destroying them; there was none left that breathed, and he burned Hazor with fire.” (vs 11)
Just to summarize: the army of Hazor was destroyed; Jabin, the king, was killed; the city was burned; and every breathing person in it was killed. That’s pretty final.
But, not long after, they were back. Judges chapter 4 begins by saying that the Israelites were doing what was evil in the sight of the Lord. So, as punishment, “the Lord sold them into the hand of Jabin, king of Canaan, who ruled in Hazor...” (vs 2)
Not only did Jabin and the people of Hazor come back to life, but they were so numerous and strong that they could purchase the Israelites as slaves. This may have something to do with their secret weapon. “Then the people of Israel cried to the Lord for help; for he had nine hundred chariots of iron and oppressed the people of Israel cruelly for twenty years.” (vs 3)
As an aside, there appears to be a bit of a mixed review on the effectiveness of iron chariots. On the one hand God tells the Israelites, “For you shall drive out the Canaanites, though they have chariots of iron, and though they are strong.” (Joshua 17:18) On the other hand, “the Lord was with Judah, and he took possession of the hill country, but he could not drive out the inhabitants of the plain, because they had chariots of iron.” (Judges 1:19) Almighty God must not have realized just how tough those iron chariots were, when he made his initial boast. It appears that a little technology, and I do mean a little, can defeat an army that has God’s backing.

Forscher,
If you read the bible from a humanitarian point of view rather than a pious religious point of view you will quickly see that their is something seriously wrong with the Jewish god. I hate to be in a kingdom run by this god.

Legolas

Again this is from Runningman....

KILL ‘EM AGAIN GOD, THE OLD FASHIONED WAY
There’s nothing that the Bible likes better than a good, old fashioned, smiting. In fact, the Bible writers liked killing so much, that sometimes, they couldn’t restrain themselves from killing the same people several times. This undoubtedly felt so good at the time that they didn’t worry about the apologetic problems that would arise later.
This chapter deals with some of the more obvious ones.
PHARAOH'S REMARKABLE HORSES
Going once:
In response to Pharaoh's hard heartedness in not letting the Israelites leave, God sent ten plagues upon
So, there they go. All of the Egyptians livestock are now dead.
Going twice:
Unfortunately, the dead animals haven’t learned their lesson, so when plague 10 rolls around , they get targeted again. Exodus 12:29 informs us: “And at midnight, Jehovah struck every firstborn in Egypt, from the Pharaoh's firstborn, who was to sit on his throne, to the firstborn of the prisoners of war in the dungeon, and all the firstborn of cattle.”
Notice that “every firstborn in ” is killed. This would mean every firstborn of every family of humans and animals. Cattle are specifically listed. I wonder what they did to deserve this notoriety. They always seem so unassuming. They must be plotting something.
Now, how is it that the firstborn of animals are killed, when all of the animals had already been killed in plague 5? Please note that if every firstborn is killed, that would also include horses. I bring this up because it becomes important in a minute.
Going three times?
Well, stubborn Pharaoh still hasn’t learned his lesson. After a momentary lapse where he lets the Israelites go, he changes his mind and chases after them. Exodus 14:9 points out: “And the Egyptians pursued them, and overtook them camping by the sea, all the Pharaoh's chariot-ponies and cavalry horses and his troops, by Pi-Hahiroth, in front of Baal-Sephan.”
The Israelites must have been moving slowly indeed, if Pharaoh overtook them on twice-dead ponies. In spite of the remarkable accomplishments of these dead steeds, they get it one more time. In Exodus 14:23, the washes over the Egyptians, killing them, their ponies, and their cavalry horses.
It’s too bad these horses were so thoroughly killed. These remarkable animals would surely have made valuable breeding stock.
The Amalekites - Three Time Losers
The Amalekites caught the brunt of God’s anger several times. Their first death was recorded in 1 Samuel 15:7,8: “And Saul defeated the Amalekites from Havilah as far as Shur, which is East of Egypt. And he took Agag, the king of the Amalekites alive, and utterly destroyed all the people with the edge of the sword.”
So, no more Amalekites, right? Wrong! Shortly after, while Saul was still King and David was a military leader, they return. Not bad for a tribe that was utterly destroyed. 1 Samuel 27:8,9 says: “Now David and his men went up, and made raids upon the Geshurites, the Girzites, and the Amalekites, for these were the inhabitants of the land from of old, as far as Shur, to the . And David smote the land, and left neither man nor woman alive...”
Well, that should just about finish them off. They were “utterly destroyed”, followed by a good smiting. Since neither man nor woman was left alive, that should pretty much do it for the Amalekites.
Not quite. In 1 Samuel 30:1, they’re back, and stronger than ever: “Now when David and his men came to Ziklag, on the third day, the Amalekites had made a raid upon the Negeb, and upon Ziklag.” They seem pretty feisty for a group that has just been killed twice. What’s a righteous king to do with people like this? You guessed it, kill them again.
1 Samuel 30:17: “And David smote them from twilight until the evening of the next day, and not a man of them escaped, except four hundred young men who mounted camels and fled. David recovered all that the Amalekites had taken, and David rescued his two wives.”
Smiting is apparently rather time consuming. I also find it amusing that “not a man of them escaped”, except for four hundred men.
Well, that pretty well wraps it up for the Amalekites. But wait. In Esther 3:1, a reference is made to “Haman, the Agagite.” If you look in 1 Samuel 15:7,8, which is quoted above, you will find that Agag was the King of Amalek. So, when the events recorded in Esther took place, around 484 B.C., there were still Amalekites alive and well.
God certainly had it in for the Amalekites. Not only did he entirely wipe them out three times, but he even intended to destroy the memory of them. Exodus 17:14 says: “And the Lord said to Moses, ‘Write this as a memorial in a book and recite it in the ears of Joshua, that I will utterly blot out the remembrance of Amalek from under heaven.”
Now, that’s good thinking. If God wanted to blot out the memory of Amalek, why would he set up a memorial in the most widely published book in history? Apparently he didn’t do a very good job of blotting out Amalek. Not only can we still read about him, but his ancestors survived for about another 800 years. For all we know, there might still be some around...

Spectrum

Legolas,

"There’s nothing that the Bible likes better than a good, old fashioned, smiting. In fact, the Bible writers liked killing so much, that sometimes, they couldn’t restrain themselves from killing the same people several times."

LOL. nice post

Legolas

All of his threads on 'Atheist book of bible stories' are great, here's the link, if you PM him he will send you the book!

They are on two pages.

http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/member/5589/topics/4.ashx

peacefulpete

2 Chronicles 14:8 goes so far as to claim the Israelite army killed a full million Ethiopian soldiers in one day. Not even the WT takes that seriously.

Caedes

Forscher wrote:

And really, considering the wholesale slaughter of innocents going on in the name of "a woman's right to choose", I have to ask myself just how we can dare claim the moral right to judge him?

Never been in that situation have you? That kind of judgemental attitude is about as far as you can get from a loving christian one.

All together now "eeeevery speeeerm is sacred...."

tetrapod.sapien

spectrum,

he he, my favorite bible. when people ask if i still own a bible, i don't tell them that i burned all my hardcopies a few months back. but i kinda always go "well, in a way, yes..." - finally and index to that thing that keeps my attention!

legolas,

you're a runningman disciple too hey? lol. it's funny, out of all the books i read when i was leaving the org, that one is somehow iconic in my mind.

caedes,

hey! long time no see....

lol, every sperm is sacred.... did you ever see that bill hicks session where he asks parents in the audience why they think their children are such special miracles? and then goes on to explain how if children are so special, then he is a real murderer because he has wasted entire nations and civilizations away masturbating. he he, made me think of that.

ts

Narkissos

The funny thing (in a way) is that most Bible "slaughters" are historical fictions (in terrible taste, but fictions all the same), written in a time when the Jewish community was not in a position to wage war against anybody. They never really happened.

But many "Bible believers" would never admit that. They prefer to deal with a bloodthirsty "God" who is shocking to them too rather than accept the fact of literary fabrication. This I find really amazing.

Which massacres did Jehovah sanction?

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