Jesus......was He Born on Earth or in Heaven?

by gumby 29 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

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  gumby

  Revelation is an odd book even to believing christians. Nowhere in the book is Jesus earthly life discussed. Not the sacraments, miracles, his earthly existance, his birth.......nothing.

  This book is an obvious hatred for the Roman dictators written by a disgruntled Jew/Jews that wrote in a fantasy world concerning Roman destruction by the hand of a fictitious Jewish messiah who never showed.

  The Christ of Revelation is actually born in heaven, and under pretty extraordinary circumstances (his mother is ‘clothed in the sun, with the moon at her feet, wearing twelve stars as a crown’ – a reasonable description of Isis).

  "And she brought forth a man child, who was to rule all nations with a rod of iron: and her child was caught up unto God, and to his throne."(Revelation 12.5)

  Thus, unlike the later books of the New Testament, Revelation has a Christ born in Heaven who rules on earth – rather than a Christ born on earth who rules in Heaven! There is no human biography at all for this Christ – he is an entirely heavenly figure,Heavenly Warlord.

  Nothing in Revelation suggests that this Christ is ever incarnated on earth. Though said to have been ‘dead , and is alive’ (2.8), the circumstances of this dying and rising are never given.

  Thoughts?

  Gumbelzeebubber
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  JH

  Well, the first words in the book of Revelation says that these are the things to come, so if this was written around the year 90 AD, then it's normal that it doesn't talk about the past....or Jesus earthly birth.

  A revelation by Jesus Christ, which God gave him, to show his slaves the things that must shortly take place. And he sent forth his angel and presented [it] in signs through him to his slave John,
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  JH

  And to understand the book of Revelation, you need to be on some kind of drugs...
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  oldflame

  And to understand the book of Revelation, you need to be on some kind of drugs...

  Or we could all run back to our kingdom halls because they have all the answers.

  NOT !
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  tetrapod.sapien

  someone said drugs. i'm here. got the bases covered. what do you want to know about revelations now?

  gumbesus,

  thoughts? ya! okay, first of all, are you a xian? or do you mind applying the label, however loosely, to yourself? i am curious. for completely honorable reasons i assure you.

  it's amazing how much we can read into a book like revelation, which also happened to be a sort of fad book of the times. but, there are all these metaphors, and numbers and abstractions, that were placed together well enough that the book would become an ever-lasting gobstopper for xians who really really really wanted it to *mean* something. or were credulous. or believed in magic. not that the writers did it on purpose. the writers believed in magic too. but that's why it worked so well, imo. and then the next guy we come across who could so utterly baffle us in weird prose that we thought he was talking about the real future, is nostradamus.

  hey, also, i am already on #2 today. you?

  ts
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  gumby

  TS,

  first of all, are you a xian?

  I was at one time. For now I'm in the re-searching mode and have for many years not believed the bible to be the word of god. It wasn't an easy choice....trust me.

  JH,

  The scripture you quoted said Revelation was a book to" show gods servants what must "shortly" take place". I wonder what the word "shortly" meant to a jew at that time? It must have meant over 2000 years at least eh?

  OldFlame. You need to read the book called "Revelation, it's climax at hand" then git yerself back to the kingdom hall where you belong where everyone's waitin for ya with open arms.

  (don't forget golfin today)

  Gumlocust
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  Narkissos

  Gumby,

  You may be quite right about some of the original (Jewish) source material for Revelation, however the extant (Christian) text does posit some reference to an "earthly Jesus" -- the slaughtered lamb, or "where their Lord was crucified" in 11:8 among others.

  Now it's a real problem for some of the earliest Christian writings, especially Pauline. Paul's "Son of God" is definitely a heavenly character, coming in the likeliness of human flesh (Romans 8:3; Philippians 2:7). The Gospel baptism and transfiguration stories also suggest that the title of "Son of God" had initially nothing to do with Jesus' birth. The quotation of Psalm 2:7, "you are my son, today I have begotten you," is applied to Jesus' baptism in the Western manuscripts of Luke 3:22, and to his resurrection in Acts 13:33 (cf. Romans 1:4).
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  gumby

  however the extant (Christian) text does posit some reference to an "earthly Jesus" -- the slaughtered lamb, or "where their Lord was crucified" in 11:8 among others.

  K. So then, was he born in heaven as John says in Revelation.....or was he born from an earthly woman......as the same John says? Surely THIS John would have known since he was a close buddy of Jesus. Also....who was this "she" who gave birth to the male child?

  Gumby...who hopes like hell nobody says "gods heavenly organisation"
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  Jake99

  Jesus was born in the mind and hand of God in heaven, as well as in the womb of woman on Earth. His earthly parents were very special but no one knew his identity untill he himself revealed it. To work for God and to do his will is a protected and mysterious adventure that takes the Messiah to many places doing things other leaders cannot do. But when he admits to being the Christ and takes on the government, all that had followed him and witnessed the miracles, were no where to be found.
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  Jake99

  The man child with the iron rod, will show you much, but will you understand what he does and accept him? That is the question of faith that requires a look at the facts.