QUOTE: What I am waiting for is one of their rank and file elders to get sued over this issue and some of the hospital liaison puppets to lose everything he owns because of it.
This point was brought up in the "Big News has Started" thread (and is now buried on page 3). Interesting point, and I wonder if anyone has ever heard of a case where elders have been successfully sued over judicial matters (slander / libel) or wrongful death (blood)? Have local congregations been sued successfully either?
My point is this: Smaller entities are easier to sue, since they have shallow pockets. Even hiring a lawyer alone would bankrupt most elders. Also, the WT cannot offer legal assistence, since that would signify culpability for the elder's actions.
just a thought.
-silent
have elders ever been sued successfully?
by silentWatcher 30 Replies latest watchtower bible
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silentWatcher
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Mary
One of my elders (who was a friend of mine) told me a few years ago that people were suing the Society over various issues, although I'm not sure of the outcome. My own personal opinion is that it is the WTS and Governing Body members who should be sued, because it's them that come up with the stupid doctrines, like no-blood, and two eye-witness rule.......the elders are just following orders from the Gestapo.......
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Honesty
bttt
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GoingGoingGone
Ok, I might be opening a can of worms here but here goes....
What I am waiting for is one of their rank and file elders to get sued over this issue and some of the hospital liaison puppets to lose everything he owns because of it.
My husband is an elder. I know that there are many people here who have experienced absolutely horrible things at the hands of elders, but there are also many elders who are kind, loving, decent human beings. My husband is one of them. He is one of the nicest people I have ever met, and would never, ever harm anyone intentionally.
He's been an elder for about 15 years probably, can't remember exactly. I know that he has served on Judical Committees. In all that time, I've never heard a word of anything elder-related... he keeps all confidential matters strictly confidential.
My point is that there are many elders who do what they do because they truly believe that it is the right thing, that they are acting on behalf of God's organization. I know my husband does. I want nothing more than for him to leave the WT, and maybe one day he will. In the meantime, I am out, and my teenage kids will be out as soon as they leave home. If he leaves one day, I know he is the type of person who will feel truly sorry and worry that he caused undue hardship to someone while he was an elder. There are people on this board who once were elders and who feel that way.
If wronged exJWs begin personally suing the elders who wronged them, it will undoubtedly escalate to exJWs suing any elder they can, just because they can gain something from it. Not everyone has stellar motives (*gasp!*). And as an exJW myself, married to an elder, this is one worry I could certianally live without.
Just a thought.
GGG
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A Paduan
There was a doctor who believed in the benefits of a particular (and different) treatment - he was convinced that he was doing the right thing and that it was for the greater good - anyway later on patients suffered serious side effects, and some died - when the families sued him, he said he was only trying to do the right thing.
Ya think ?
a little arrogance is a dangerous thing
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TallTexan
there are many elders who do what they do because they truly believe that it is the right thing, that they are acting on behalf of God's organization
As the Nuremburg trials illustrated, doing something immoral is not justified by 'following orders' or believing in a misguided ideal. I have heard serveral elders and ex-elders state that at times they did things they felt were neither right nor just in regards to judiciary matters. But, they did what they were 'advised' to do by the Society. If individual elders were sued, regardless of their motives, then they may think twice about df'ing someone, or possibly about being elders at all.
The hard thing about suing over things like this is that the legal system views it as a 'you know the rules, either play by them or leave' situation. They assume you were aware when you became a JW what the rules were, so you must follow them. If you don't like them, then leave the org. Proving mental anguish and that type of thing is very difficult as well, so that may be difficult to sue over.
I want to see a civil suit brought by someone who was molested by a brother after someone else reported it and they were let off the hook because there weren't two witnesses. I want to see a civil suit by a JW who claims they didn't take blood based on info in the blood brochure and prove that it was misquoted and/or taken out of context and thus led to injury or death.
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BluesBrother
Well said, Goinggoinggone..I was one of those elders as well. Perhaps not as good an elder as your husband, but certainly sincere in what I was doing.
There are elders who are nasty pieces of work, I have served with them the same as I served with some men who were excellent human beings. At the end of the day, we all acted on the sayso of "The Society". If they said jump - we jumped as high as we could . Any committee irrespective of who is chairman, always has a prime mover, at least one who always does what the others do, and one who feels subordinate and accepts the judgement of the others.
Is it right, feasible even to sue unpaid individuals who did what they were told, in the belief they were serving God?
In my view, unless an elder has committed a personal wrong, the blame for all this lies at the top . The ones who write the garbage and claim to have "spirit direction" are really culpable. The rest are victims too.
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blindersoff
If individual elders were sued, regardless of their motives, then they may think twice about df'ing someone, or possibly about being elders at all.
Good point, TT
B
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seven006
Going,
That is my quote at the beginning of this thread and taken out of context it looks like I have some kind of vendetta against the elders. I do not. The full context of that quote is finished by the following:
“The R&F elders will not be able to claim they are innocent because they were just following orders. Once that happens and the story gets out, the watchtower leaders will loose their middle man management power of having janitors and carpet layers run their followers lives. The link in their chain of command will break in the middle and those poor uneducated elders will be used as scapegoats. The smart ones will either step down and take less responsibility in the congregation or have an epiphany of self-realization and honesty and become…. well, they’ll just become”.
My comment about one of them being sued over this was made as something that would be an eye opener to the average elder. They make life and death decisions about people and their families with out any real education on expertise in handling family problems, emotional or psychological problems or in this case medical knowledge.
They are being USED!!! They need a wake up call for them to recognize that they are being put in that position with out any real tools or education to make a life and death decision. I know there are a lot of good hearted and well meaning elders but as long as they unquestionably do what they are told they are as guilty as the watchtower leaders who cover their ass and knowingly manipulate the truth and the facts to cover up their many mistakes and represent those mistakes as “new light”.
A huge lawsuit on just a few elders might make the other good hearted ones wake up and realize they are liable for what they do whether they “think” they are following god’s law or not. My comment about this possible scenario was made to bring attention to an elder’s real liability and make them THINK.
I went up against my own brother who was an elder as well as a JW hospital liaison ten years ago in a life and death blood issue with my mom. My brother is a ditch digger for the small city he works for and the liaison was a maintenance man. They were being manipulated by the watchtower printing company to make my mom a martyr and let her die. They were both good-hearted people but blinded by the pseudo power the watchtower had given them. The doctor listened to my exJW sister and me and gave my mom the “questionable” blood fraction and she lived. If we had not stepped in and talked intelligently to the doctor she would have died.
So much for good hearted elders when it comes to life and death issues.
Dave -
GoingGoingGone
As the Nuremburg trials illustrated, doing something immoral is not justified by 'following orders' or believing in a misguided ideal.
I'm not talking about defending elders who act in an immoral fashion. I'm talking about elders who DF those who the WT perceives as 'wrongdoers', following WT guidelines. If an elder acts reprehensibly, then by all means, sue him personally. That goes for your R&F 'brother' or 'sister', too, though. Don't single out elders...many of them do what they do because they believe it is RIGHT.
There was a doctor who believed in the benefits of a particular (and different) treatment - he was convinced that he was doing the right thing and that it was for the greater good - anyway later on patients suffered serious side effects, and some died - when the families sued him, he said he was only trying to do the right thing.
I don't know if this is a hypothetical situation, but I think that someone who accepts alternative or experimental medical treatment bears some responsiblity if that treatment fails. Experimental treatment is, by definition, unproven, and needs human 'guinea pigs' in order to determine it's effectiveness. Either way, the participants are taking a chance, but they chose to participate because they feel that the potential for personal benefit outweighs the risk of personal harm.
The same is true of JWs........ they stay JWs as long as they feel the personal benefits outweigh the personal negative effects they may experience. If they stick around because they enjoy the atmosphere and the security, then get DF'd for adultery (for example) and sue the elders because they are shunned... it's the same type of thing, imo. You know the rules, you follow the rules, and when you break the rules and someone else enforces them, you can't turn around and sue them for doing what they believe is right. Again, I'm not talking about morally reprehensible behavior.... I'm referring to elders acting as they are told by what they perceive as God's mouthpiece.
That being said, I DO think that the WTS policy-makers bear a huge responsibility for the suffering inflicted on the 'flock', for a variety of reasons. When it comes to Brooklyn, I say go for the jugular.
GGG