Anyone else in PUTERNUT's shoes? Despairing? COME TO US! (page 3)

Frannie Banannie

I completely understand Puternut's decision. He has something now that he hasn't ever had. Peace of mind. Why do people try to prevent that from being accomplished? You aren't living his life, you don't know what he was going through. Let him enjoy his silent heart for once.

Amen to this, BG. While some say it's an act of selfishness, it really isn't. The selfishness was in giving of one's self, one's time, one's possessions, one's labor and being taken for granted for it. Peace and rest and freedom from worry about things one cannot change at last is what it gives.

AlmostAtheist

I completely understand Puternut's decision. He has something now that he hasn't ever had. Peace of mind. Why do people try to prevent that from being accomplished?

Wow. That was an honest post. And in answer to your earlier thread, THAT is courage. And I don't begrudge his decision. I do wish he'd've given us a chance to work with him on it, brainstorm a bit, try to come up with another option.

It isn't fair to force our beliefs on other people, but it doesn't hurt to share them and try to learn from one another. One of my beliefs is that people don't live after they die. Under that belief system, Puternut's gone. He's not experiencing peace of mind, he's just gone. If he was truly so damaged that there was no hope for him to have happiness in his life again, then he did the right thing.

But how could he know? How could we know? Without that absolute knowledge, it seems like a reasonable bet to gamble a few extra months of anguish in the throes of depression and give your friends a chance to help you. The payoff is possibly years of happy life.

Take you, Andi. Think of all the pictures you'll take in the next ten years. Imagine the smiling families, gathered around your proofs, ooohing and ahhing over your work. Now -- take that away. All that potential happiness out there waiting in your future, taken away because your very-willing-to-be-leaned-on friends didn't get utilized. It's not about guilt -- "how can you take yourself away from all of us?!?" -- it's about your potential. So very much potential.

Ary's potential is gone. We need to preserve our collective potential.

Dave

wannaexit

But now we're all truly brothers and sisters. Not because we believe alike, but because we ARE alike. We're all humans, for gods sake. I love you, each and every one of you.

You are very endearing . Here is a big HUG (((()))))

wanna

Billygoat

Dave,

I understand your viewpoint. Because when I am "well", that is my viewpoint.

We need to preserve our collective potential.

At what cost? At Ary's happiness? At anyone's who is depressed? Does that really make them better?

I am not trying to be argumentative. Truly. Just thinking out loud I guess.

I guess my first thought for Ary (after my initial shock) was one of relief. I felt relieved for him. I guess what I'm trying to say, is similar to what you shared with me in a recent PM. Maybe before we start a pep rally to "cheer up the sad people", let's try to understand Life from their shoes. Sometimes a depressed person only needs another person to hear. Or just be. One of the most comforting things for me is when my husband just sits next to me and holds my hand while I cry. Or not talk or cry at all. I just need a TANGIBLE action on someone else's part that SHOWS me they are "here". No words, just action.

Does that make sense? I think I'm kinda rambling since I haven't really stopped crying myself in the last 4 or 5 days.

Brigid

"I completely understand Puternut's decision. He has something now that he hasn't ever had. Peace of mind. Why do people try to prevent that from being accomplished? You aren't living his life, you don't know what he was going through. Let him enjoy his silent heart for once"

You're right, I cannot place myself in anyone else's skin and I completely and utterly honor anyone's control over their own destiny but....it's so sad when people exercise it this way. Hey, we're aplanet to learn and to grow through pain often times but we're here for a reason! To love one another. I love each and every one of you. Even the souls who hate me because I'm now "apostate" and challenge their current schema. At the soul level, I am one with you.

I love you.

I am here.

~Brigid

undercover

This is a heavy thread...

but, it shows me something that I never saw with the JWs in the same situation:

Independant thought and ideas

Compassion

Grief

Relief

I've known a couple of people who committed suicide. Not just acquaintances, but friends. When it got out that a JW had committed suicide the local congregation circled the wagons and kept at bay the intruding "worldly" people. The JWs didn't want to think about it, let alone talk about it. There wasn't any thoughts of "what could we have done" or "what do we need to do now". It was more like "let's get this over with and get on with important things like field service". The grief, if real at all, was short lived and swept under the rug. Instead of opening hearts and arms, the elders had to convene and meet to decide if the hall could be used for the funeral. Disgusting. This was a member of your congregationa and you have to "decide" if the funeral can be held there??

I've never paid my condolences, outside of the receiving line at the funeral, to the families. It just wasn't done. Don't think about it, don't talk about it and certainly don't let outsiders bring it up.

This thread shows me that a bunch of 'ungodly, satan-worshipping apostates' have more compassion and feeling for their fellow man than any congregation of JWs that I've been associated with.

cruzanheart

Why do people try to prevent that from being accomplished?

A very good question, Andi. I think of the pain my dad was in before he pulled the trigger, and I can understand wanting to end it. But then I look at the pain he left behind: a young grandson who is very very angry that Grandpa left him so early, who feels cheated by not having the generational relationship that he needs as he grows up, the benefit of all those years of living that Dad had to offer. Each person on this planet means something to someone and our lives are all intersected and entwined so that when one is missing suddenly there is a sense of loss. And so we grieve. Selfishly, we want that person back for our own sense of completeness.

Jackson will "get over" Dad's death eventually, but he will never forget it or what might have been. And we will never forget that Ary walked, spoke, breathed and smiled on this planet and touched us all.

Nina

AlmostAtheist

At what cost? At Ary's happiness? At anyone's who is depressed? Does that really make them better?

Well, yeah, true. It's a "count the cost" thing, true. And I'm a supporter of the right-to-die concept. If a person can be in a constant state of phsyical pain, enough to warrant ending their lives, then it follows that they could be in a constant state of [whatever other sort of] pain enough to warrant it.

But -- and I am also just thinking out loud -- it seems that we presuppose the person doing this hasn't costed it out correctly since WE value them so highly. But then I pay $50 for a DVD full of cartoons, so what do I know about cost versus value, eh?

It has to be admitted that a suicidal person is often also out of balance. They aren't necessarily weighing things properly. I remember breaking down and sobbing because someone cut the cord on my lawnmower. I may well have ended my life then and there -- over the lawnmower cord. It's those folks that we need to catch. Give them a chance to catch their breath, get caught up with whatever it is that's overtaking them, and give them a chance to honestly evaluate where they are.

It's a bit like trying to help JW's. For the most part, we only want a chance to show them the evidence that there is a better way. We're not trying to change them, just show them that there is a way to change.

One of the most comforting things for me is when my husband just sits next to me and holds my hand while I cry. Or not talk or cry at all. I just need a TANGIBLE action on someone else's part that SHOWS me they are "here". No words, just action.

Yes. Yes. Yes. We need to be able to provide that tangible action to those that need it when they need it. Thank you for this.

Dave

MsMcDucket

Is it possible to make a 24 hour exJWD prevent suicide support line/site? Made up of volunteers from around the world, so someone would always be there day or night? It would have to be people who are good at talking and giving advice. Sometimes, people just need someone to listen. You know what I mean.

lola28

wow, this is a heavy thread. Dave I think a lot of times we just need to know that there is someone out there that knows how we feel, at the end of the day I think thats what it comes down to. Knowing that someone out there is willing to hear us out, that someone else cares enough to do that is sometimes all we need.

I know that there is nothing I can do to take away your pain, just like there is nothing you can do to take away mine, but here is something that I can do: I can listen to you for however long you need me to. I won't fix what is wrong but I will be here for you when you need someone to hear you out.

I have been very lucky, through JWD and www.thomschat.com I have found people that I know will listen to me when I am down, so please if any of you need to talk, go to the chat or feel free to pm me.

Dave you are a great guy, I will pm you my number.

lola

Anyone else in PUTERNUT's shoes? Despairing? COME TO US!

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