Stop going to the meetings.
They are pure evil, bible is just a store front.
Or you may become another suicide statistic.
Anyone else in PUTERNUT's shoes? Despairing? COME TO US!
by AlmostAtheist 77 Replies latest jw friends
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candidlynuts
LDH good point. the therapist i had a few years ago made the same point and that ONE thing she said helped a LOT. i'm sure your comment will help many here.
AA, you are extending a hand and when we're in deep depressions or despair of any hope having someone reaching out can make a difference in life and death. i am on the back side of some dark dark days and even though there is no resolution and will be no resolution to some of my jw related family problems, i've gone thru this darkness ok because of friends giving me a sense of self worth unrelated to kingdom hall attendance! my companion even said,"every tear you shed gives the wtbs a victory, is that what you want?" kinda snapped me back into reality ... anyway, the point is.... i hope any that are in a dark place see the offer your extending for what it is. thank you!
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myself
Don't solve a temporary problem with much-too-permanent solution.
Well said Dave.
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stillAwitness
Is it possible to make a 24 hour exJWD prevent suicide support line/site? Made up of volunteers from around the world, so someone would always be there day or night? It would have to be people who are good at talking and giving advice. Sometimes, people just need someone to listen. You know what I mean. Good idea here!
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Big Tex
At what cost? At Ary's happiness? At anyone's who is depressed? Does that really make them better?
I am not trying to be argumentative. Truly. Just thinking out loud I guess.
I guess my first thought for Ary (after my initial shock) was one of relief. I felt relieved for him. I guess what I'm trying to say, is similar to what you shared with me in a recent PM. Maybe before we start a pep rally to "cheer up the sad people", let's try to understand Life from their shoes. Sometimes a depressed person only needs another person to hear. Or just be. One of the most comforting things for me is when my husband just sits next to me and holds my hand while I cry. Or not talk or cry at all. I just need a TANGIBLE action on someone else's part that SHOWS me they are "here". No words, just action.
With all due respect Andi, death is never an answer. Death is the escape. No one here in this life can say with absolute certainty what happens after death. One day everyone here on this board will find out what happens, but until then we are left with only our hopes, beliefs and dreams. No one here can say with certainty that there is peace, happiness or pain after death. We all have our beliefs, but at this stage that's as far as it goes.
When I was 6 years old I sat on the kitchen floor holding a box of Comet, wondering if I swallowed it, if it would be enough to kill me. When I was 23 I had a rather detailed plan on killing myself, and damn near did it.
In 2002 Nina's father, whom I felt as close as a father (I even called him my step-father) sank into depression. I had lunch with him 2 or 3 times a week (I worked nights then). I said everything, did everything I could to save his life. But in the final analysis, he did not want to live. He did not want to solve his problems; he did not want to face what was troubling him. All he wanted was to escape. He wanted to die; he wanted to (in his words) "go away and escape".
This is not finding happiness. This is not making it better.
Why did I contemplate death? Because I just wanted the pain to end. I didn't really want to die, I just wanted to stop hurting. In the 20 years since I finally conquered this particular issue I can say that I am glad to have stuck it out. Don't get me wrong, there's been a helluva lot of heartache and pain (especially the last few months). But I am most proud of the fact that by living I conquered that particular fear. I was afraid of lifting the rock of my sub-conscious and looking at some nasty, scary creepy crawlies in there. Nina's father was afraid of the same thing. I know that for a fact. He chose instead to let his fear consume him, and it did - quite literally.
I'm not saying that anything like this was behind Ary's suicide. Human behavior is far too complex for such a simple minded solution. But I will say that, in general, one who is suicidal is not aware of others. They are so focused on their own pain they are not aware (or even allow themselves to consider the possibility) that their pain and eventual death could impact, hurt and even harm those around them. It's as if their pain is so all consuming they see only themselves and do not see outside of themselves. I was like that once, and I know Nina's father was as well.
But this is why it is absolutely imperative that someone who is depressed seek out others. The cliche is that depression is anger and sadness turned inward. One who is so depressed that they want to die is focused on themselves. They need, desperately need, the rest of us as a touchstone; a rock to hold on to while the storm rages around them. They have lost their way and cannot see. Their fear, their anger, their sadness, hell their pain has them so turned around they cannot find their way.
It is our obligation, our responsibility to do whatever we can to help them find their way out. Having said that, all we can do is offer a hand but the one depressed must want to find their way out. In my case I did not want to die; I wanted anything but to die. With Nina's father, he not only did not want to find a way out, he embraced death. In retrospect I believe he wanted to die for many years before he actually did it.
This life is a helluva thing. It's not fair, sometimes harsh and cruel. It can also be full of joys and delights to satisfy tastes both delicate and wondrous. I sometimes wonder if the trick is to protect oneself from the former while staying open to the latter. Not an easy thing to do, and not everyone can or even wants to do it.
All we can do is make the effort, show we care and extend a hand. The one who is so depressed they want to die must first want to grasp the hand. That's the first step. Ultimately our lives are defined by our choices. My story continues, haltingly, sometimes painfully and never as I would wish it. Ary's story, as well as Nina's father, is finished. The last sentence of the last chapter has been written.
It's about choices isn't it? Choose to face it or choose to run; choose to fight, struggle, stumble and bumble through life always in search of answers or choose to leave. We can choose life or we can choose death.
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MegaDude
So well said, Chris. Truth from being in the trenches.
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Frannie Banannie
Well, BT, what if one's life has become just one never-ending struggle and one is just sick and damned tired of fighting and would like to take flight, check out, have one's ticket punched, because one is just passed over, overlooked, made to feel like one is an embarrassment, a meadow-muffin and the only attention paid to a person is when someone else wants something from them and one just might as well be a hermit on a freaking mountain all alone, so why should a person, under those circumstances bother?
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Big Tex
so why should a person, under those circumstances bother?
Forgive me, but life finds a way.
If one wants to check out the exit door is clearly marked. I've been at that point though, when there was no one. No one cared. I was sick of playing the game. I cried all the tears I could. I truly believe there is a hell; I've been there (and I think you have been too Frannie).
But ...
At some point you either say "Fuck it" and leave or you say "Fuck it" and stay. If you stay, there are resources; there are answers (not easy ones and certainly not always pleasant ones) but answers nonetheless. There are roads out. Not easy roads; many times they are full of pain. This life seems to be about action, muscles moving, and inertia seems to lead to sinking. Doing things, talking to others, meeting others, sharing stories seem to lead out of the darkness. Isolation seems to invoke the darkness sucking us in. I do not believe life is fair. We all have our own pain, a secret pain that is ours and no one else's. I believe, again forgive me for submitting a belief, that healing begins when we come together. We need each other. Our pain becomes magnified when we are isolated, lonely and sitting there brooding on our inner demons, allowing them to screech at us. As someone once said, "Anyone who says life is fair is selling something."
But, if I may, one belief I have from this life is that we are defined by our choices. Ary chose to leave, as did Nina's father. I chose to stay. But now that I'm staying, it is my responsibility to fight, to struggle, and to fail almost daily, to reach my answers.
Why should a person bother? For me it's because I want to live. Maybe it's just that simple, and just that difficult.
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bikerchic
Well you guys and gals really touched me deeply with your care and concern. I have a story to tell in fact many of them about suicide if I can put my words down coherently I will in a post of several down the road.......
((((((((Frannie))))))))
Please tell me these aren't your thoughts about yourself?!!!!!
Well, BT, what if one's life has become just one never-ending struggle and one is just sick and damned tired of fighting and would like to take flight, check out, have one's ticket punched, because one is just passed over, overlooked, made to feel like one is an embarrassment, a meadow-muffin and the only attention paid to a person is when someone else wants something from them and one just might as well be a hermit on a freaking mountain all alone, so why should a person, under those circumstances bother?
Dear sweet lady........I know you don't know me from Adam and I know I'm not the one to make a difference because you seek the admiration of someone else, but I will tell you you are not an embarrassment but a asset to us here on JWD. Your posts never get overlooked by me I always read them, sorry if I hardly ever comment back to you, my bad. Please never tire of the fight, please seek help, please reach out to others you are one dear lovely lady and never forget your value is greater than any meadow-muffin I've ever seen (lol, humor if you please).
I'm here and I'm listening.
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Sunspot
The desparation one goes through to reach the point were death seems like the only answer to stop the hurting , the pain, the lonliness is hard to describe to another. At that moment in life an abyss seems to open and swallow you whole , you see no way out other than the most drastic of measures. Depression eats away your reasoning that things can change for the better, or at least any change from what you are going through at that moment. The feeling there is no one on this planet that cares about whether you breathe another breath is over whelming .Death seems like peace to you then. How sad .... when we convince ourselves that this is rational.
I agree with this post 100%. I have seriously attempted suicide twice, before I even heard of the WTS....so I cannot "blame" them (this time) for the total despair and enveloping pit of darkness and indescribable pain that overtakes one in this situation.
By the time you reach this point---there is no other solution and you just cannot see beyond the pain and emptiness that hangs over you 24/7. I understand it completely, but now see the devastation that is left behind. When you are IN this pit---you cannot SEE this at all......all you want is to be FREE of the pain that you have no way of removing. You just want it to STOP.
Now, I am just to old, feisty, angry and stubborn to even think about going that route ever again....I was just 26 when I tried to kill myself. One method didn't work so I tried another....I did NOT want to live. No "attention-getting" stunt, as my parents said and told the doctors when the hosptial had notified them that that someone had found me still alive. I meant business and obviously didn't know how to go about it. This was the first thing I said when I "came to"....that I couldn't even do THIS right. I am only sharing this to let you know that "I" know just how devastating this can be.
Between the sad post that Dave had written about the progression of his disease, and the news of Ary's passing....I just don't know what to say anymore. I am angry at the situations they BOTH face, and we all share the sorrow of losing our dear Puternut. I get a lump in my throat when reading all the posts from the newbies, sharing their experiences and heartbreak due to the WTS cult.....and I can't even reply to them sometimes....it's just too hard.
When I blow up and stick it to the WTS defenders and apologists...it is out of the sheer frustration I feel because they are so blind to the workings of that insideous and cruel cult.
My heart embraces each and every one of you in your pain and your terrible situations, but sometimes I am too weary emotionally to "be there" as I know I should be.
I wish I had the strength to BE of more help and I am sorry.....
Annie