UNITED NATIONS , NGO's and WTBS

by MacHislopp 501 Replies latest watchtower scandals

  • hawkaw
    hawkaw

    Thanks MA and Understand.

    I still feel it is more but you are right - best to play conservative.

    LET'S ROLL on this tomorrow.

    hawk

  • Trevor Scott
    Trevor Scott

    MadApostate,

    I hear you and agree. Just don't want the gravity of this one to get minimized, either.

    Yes, we have to deal with the facts, and the fact of the matter is the Watchtower Society has made a "commitment" to support the United Nations [aka, Scarlet Beast]. The significance of this fact should not be understated.

    TS.

  • hawkaw
    hawkaw

    Why is this on page 3 of this forum? Gee I go to bed for 10 hours and .....

    If CNN can only report about the crisis in America story 24/7 then this thread just has to be a page one story at JW.com.

    And the title for this story should be "God's Borg in bed with the beast".

    For the record, I would like to take this opportunity and thank db for her help. She assisted me yesterday in formulating an approach we should take in another telephone call with the DPI.

    Also a very nice witness who wishes to remain in the background provided me with the following information that might interest you.

    Did you know that the Bible Students actually praised President Wilson's proposed idea of the League of Nations? It's interesting reading in the Feb. 15, 1919 issue of the Watchtower, p. 6389, par. 2. (Reprints)

    In part the article stated: "The President's idea seems to be that the League of Nations which he proposes should stand for world service rather than mere world regulation in the military sense, and that the very smallest of nations shall be participants in its every arrangement. In other words, his idea undoubtedly is that the league shall not be established merely for the purpose of promoting peace by threat or coercion; but that its purpose, when put into operation, will be to make of all nations of earth one great family, working together for the common benefit in all the avenues of national life. Truly this is idealistic, and approximates in a small way that which God has foretold that he will bring about after this great time of trouble."

    I guess that NGO's such as the Watchtower should promote such ideals of world service and this is why they have connected themselves with the League's successor, the United Nations - HA!

    bttt

    hawk

  • MadApostate
    MadApostate

    Since an "associated NGO" supposedly "shares the ideals of the UN Charter", I thought I would post the UN Charter's "PREAMBLE" and "PURPOSES AND PRINCIPLES":

    -------------------------------------------------

    PREAMBLE
    TO THE
    CHARTER OF THE UNITED NATIONS

    WE THE PEOPLES OF THE UNITED NATIONS DETERMINED

    to save succeeding generations from the scourge of war, which twice in our lifetime has brought untold sorrow to mankind, and

    to reaffirm faith in fundamental human rights, in the dignity and worth of the human person, in the equal rights of men and women and of nations large and small, and

    to establish conditions under which justice and respect for the obligations arising from treaties and other sources of international law can be maintained, and

    to promote social progress and better standards of life in larger freedom,

    AND FOR THESE ENDS
    to practice tolerance and live together in peace with one another as good neighbours, and

    to unite our strength to maintain international peace and security, and
    to ensure, by the acceptance of principles and the institution of methods, that armed force shall not be used, save in the common interest, and

    to employ international machinery for the promotion of the economic and social advancement of all peoples,

    HAVE RESOLVED TO COMBINE OUR EFFORTS TO ACCOMPLISH THESE AIMS

    Accordingly, our respective Governments, through representatives assembled in the city of San Francisco, who have exhibited their full powers found to be in good and due form, have agreed to the present Charter of the United Nations and do hereby establish an international organization to be known as the United Nations.

    CHAPTER I

    PURPOSES AND PRINCIPLES

    Article 1

    The Purposes of the United Nations are:

    1. To maintain international peace and security, and to that end: to take effective collective measures for the prevention and removal of threats to the peace, and for the suppression of acts of aggression or other breaches of the peace, and to bring about by peaceful means, and in conformity with the principles of justice and international law, adjustment or settlement of international disputes or situations which might lead to a breach of the peace;

    2. To develop friendly relations among nations based on respect for the principle of equal rights and self-determination of peoples, and to take other appropriate measures to strengthen universal peace;

    3. To achieve international co-operation in solving international problems of an economic, social, cultural, or humanitarian character, and in promoting and encouraging respect for human rights and for fundamental freedoms for all without distinction as to race, sex, language, or religion; and

    4. To be a centre for harmonizing the actions of nations in the attainment of these common ends.

    Article 2

    The Organization and its Members, in pursuit of the Purposes stated in Article 1, shall act in accordance with the following
    Principles.

    1. The Organization is based on the principle of the sovereign equality of all its Members.

    2. All Members, in order to ensure to all of them the rights and benefits resulting from membership, shall fulfill in good faith the obligations assumed by them in accordance with the present Charter.

    3. All Members shall settle their international disputes by peaceful means in such a manner that international peace and security, and justice, are not endangered.

    4. All Members shall refrain in their international relations from the threat or use of force against the territorial integrity or political independence of any state, or in any other manner inconsistent with the Purposes of the United Nations.

    5. All Members shall give the United Nations every assistance in any action it takes in accordance with the present Charter, and shall refrain from giving assistance to any state against which the United Nations is taking preventive or enforcement action.

    6. The Organization shall ensure that states which are not Members of the United Nations act in accordance with these Principles so far as may be necessary for the maintenance of international peace and security.

    7. Nothing contained in the present Charter shall authorize the United Nations to intervene in matters which are essentially within the domestic jurisdiction of any state or shall require the Members to submit such matters to settlement under the present Charter; but this principle shall not prejudice the application of enforcement measures under Chapter Vll.

  • MadApostate
    MadApostate

    Hawkaw:

    The Feb 1919 Watch Tower statement,
    "Truly this is idealistic, and approximates in a small way that which God has foretold that he will bring about after this great time of trouble."

    was published while JFR and his cohorts were in prison.

    After JFR's release, in Sept 1919 at Cedar Point, JFR condemned the League Of Nations because the Federal Council of Churches had made statements very similar to the one which was published earlier in the Watch Tower.

    There's nothing wrong with the phraseology that the "WTS has been bed with the UN/Beast", since that's what the "Great Harlot" does- spiritual prostitution. However, I'm guessing that more JWs would more identify with the symbolism that the "WTS is sitting on, or riding on the back of the image of the wild beast." At least it seems more appropriate language to those such as myself who "cut their prophetic teeth" via studying in the "Babylon The Great" book. Again, refer to pages 576 and on.

  • hawkaw
    hawkaw

    As a nonJW I thank you MA.

    "Optics" are very important and you seem to have a "knack" of at least getting me to the correct phrase for the audience.

    Well done and keep up the great work.

    I see you have been reading through the UN web site as well.

    Have you or anyone else posted the pages you quote from on "Babylon The Great" book? I have seen a lot of other quotes on this thread but I can't remember about this book. Do you think it would add to the thread if you post the pages and bold the pertinent sections?

    hawk

  • hawkaw
    hawkaw

    I telephoned Mr. Dzioubinski (212-963-1859) at the UN’s DPI at about 9:30 am edst. I got “bumped” to Ms. Isold Oca, Informations Officer with the DPI.. I explained who I was and why I was telephoning. The following is my question and answer session with her.

    Question: Can you give me a letter or a copy of the Watchtower’s application etc. to prove that the Watchtower actually is an accredited NGO that is associated with the DPI?

    Answer: No. But you can go to the Web site. Also I can assure you Mr. Hawk that the Watchtower is an NGO associated with the DPI since 1991. They had to go through an accreditation process and provide a copy of their bylaws and procedures.

    (Pause - Note to readers: Ms Oca really wanted to stress to me the 1991 date without being prompted by me and she said it in a tone which suggests she had more than one phone call over this issue from people who just didn't believe it)

    Question: Can you give me a blank application form that the Watchtower has to fill out?

    Answer: Yes I will send a copy to your electronic mail as soon as I get a second.

    Question Do you have a contact person at the Watchtower you deal with?

    Answer. You can look it up on our the Web site.

    Question: But there is only a phone and facsimile number without a contact. So does your file have a name?

    Answer: Oh, okay well we have the Watchtower contact person as W.L. Barry and his telephone number is 718-625-3600.

    Question: Is there anything you can give me in writing on this issue to prove the Watchtower is associated with the DPI because a lot of members of the Watchtower don’t use the Internet?

    Answer: We have received a lot of telephone calls and electronic messages from a lot of concerned people over this issue. Both Mr. Dzioubinski and I are concerned and we will bring this whole Watchtower concern to the head of the program, Mr. Paul Hoeffel, when he returns from a foreign trip.

    Question: Oh so a lot of people have been call in and Emailing you over their concerns about the Watchtower being associated with the DPI.

    Answer: Yes, which is surprising seeing the Watchtower would have had to show proof through the corporation’s bylaws etc. to meet our standard before becoming “associated” with the DPI. We at the United Nations DPI are very concerned and we will be dealing with this issue next week.

    Telephone call ends.

    I hope this helps. I will be telephoning her back this afternoon to try another angle at getting the application form the Watchtower had to fill out.

    I am still waiting for Ms. Oca to Email me the blank application form that the Watchtower would have had to complete. Once done I will post and Email the “actual forms” to the appropriate people to get them posted at internet sites through out the JW world.

    Hope all of this helps.

    By the sound of Ms Oca's comments, the DPI is so worried about all the recent telephone calls and Emails that they, (the head people at the DPI) are going to be holding a meeting over this issue shortly.

    I recommend to everyone and I mean everyone, start telephoning and Emailing the UN (to the above-noted people at the above-noted telephone numbers and Email sites that have been posted on this thread) like crazy. Make sure your Emails have your concerns and please, please, please quantify your concerns with good examples!!!!!

    So I got the name - W.L. Barry - for you guys.

    So my jw and exjw witness friends, who is this cat???????

    LET'S ROLL!!!!!!!!!!!

    Hawk

  • Tina
    Tina

    Hi Hawk!
    Excellent advice,we all need to help this ball 'roll'!
    Much appreciation for your work here! Thank you Mac,db everyone involved in creating awareness here. too!
    Hi Mac,
    No,I never saw that pub?,is it available online someplace? With gratitude and luv,Tina

    Carl Sagan on balancing openness to new ideas with skeptical scrutiny..."if you are open to the point of gullibility and have not an ounce of skeptical sense-you cannot distinguish useful ideas from worthless ones."

  • MadApostate
    MadApostate

    Hawkaw:

    W. Lloyd Barry, a member of the Governing Body, died from a heart attack on July 2, 1999.

    Barry was likely identified as the "contact person" on the original application.

    However, that is NOT the answer to my question as to who is the current MAIN REPRESENTATIVE and ALTERNATE REP, or who previously held such positions.

    Those two people are the only ones who would be receiving "credentials" to access UN-NGO meetings, and accessing UN assistance/materials. As discussed previously, these people are probably connected to the Writing Staff.

  • hawkaw
    hawkaw

    That is the only name Ms. Oca had. I will call her back right shortly!!

    hawk

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